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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Germany => Topic started by: rocco on May 31, 2012, 02:26:01 PM

Title: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: rocco on May 31, 2012, 02:26:01 PM
I recently managed to aquire one of these stunning thickly-cased-with-lots-of-inclusions Ichendorf vases (was high up on my German glass wishlist)

It is 24 cm tall, very heavy (around 4 kg), has a polished and bevelled rim, ground and polished base with circular pontil mark and a tiny square acid etched mark (is this the Ichendorf mark? Or part of it?)

The finish of this vase also convinces me that my other vase in a similar style (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,42210) which Ivo kindly identified as Leerdam (with the reservation that he knew nothing about Ichendorf, obviously not true ;D) is definately not Ichendorf.

I wrote an e-mail to the Ichendorf Glass Museum to see if there is some more information (date, designer, etc.)

Michael
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: Anik R on May 31, 2012, 04:05:44 PM
Wow, great vase, Michael. Isn't it a fantastic feeling to get something which is high up on the wish list?  Congratulations!
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 31, 2012, 04:31:23 PM
It is wonderful - and what a joy to find something you've wanted for a long time.  ;D
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: rocco on May 31, 2012, 05:52:01 PM
Thanks for the nice comments! :)
Thick-walled, internally decorated glass is just my thing.

It's sad that there is so little information to be found on the post war output of Ichendorf; a few precious contributions from Ivo on the board, that's about it. Even worse than with other German makers...

Michael
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: dirk. on May 31, 2012, 06:11:09 PM
The thing on the bottom is part of the Ichendorf mark, which can sometimes be found
as an acid-mark and is just a stylised
i
for Ichendorf. Same mark is also used on a square foil label with a frame (can´t remember
at the moment wether complete or open to one side).
You´ve photographed the dot of an i I think.  ;D
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: rocco on May 31, 2012, 06:17:28 PM
Thanks Dirk!
If that square is the dot of an i, the rest of the letter is missing ;D
Not even the tiniest bit of it to be found.

edit: do you have any more info on this range? -- I have seen 2 or 3 of these on German ebay during the last months (mine is one of them), but they seem less common than the thick-walled rectangular knobbly vases...

Michael
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: dirk. on June 01, 2012, 03:35:01 AM
Sorry, Michael. The information on Ichendorf seems, like you said, even more
limited than those on other german glassworks...  :(
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: flying free on June 02, 2012, 09:03:57 PM
fabulous design  :) I like the way it's made and the bubble effect. 
m
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: langhaugh on June 02, 2012, 09:10:23 PM
Great find, Michael. I'm a big fan of inclusions, although I have difficulty explaining that even to myself.  I know nothing about Ichendorf and about the same for other German makers. What is the approximate date this was made?

David


Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: astrid on June 03, 2012, 06:47:49 AM
Lovely, and every attributed piece helps my Ichendorf knowledge. I didn't know they did these sort of inclusions. Like you said, Ichendorf info is really scarce.

I only have one Ichendorf I'm sure of (the famous Tüsselman design), and one I think is perhaps Ichendorf, but can't remember (I bought a lot of German glass that day, and when I got home I had forgotten the attribution of that particular piece. Aargh).

I'm always looking for places to find out more about German glass then I already know. I guess we could use a few more threads dedicated to posting the works of a particular company (like the Skrdlovice thread over at Czech glass), especially if there are no books on that company available. Most of what I know I picked up by seeing labeled ones for sale on ebay (which would be a lot easier if some Germans weren't obsessed with slapping 'Joska' labels on everything they offer for sale, sigh.

Astrid
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: rocco on June 03, 2012, 01:21:55 PM
Thanks for contributing, folks!

David: I have no idea when this vase could have been made; I would guess late 1960s or 1970s.
Unfortunately the Ichendorf Glasmuseum guy didn't answer my e-mail so far...

Some of the (very little) info I was able to find on Ichendorf:

... Ichendorf was located in Bergheim-Ichendorf, Germany and went under at the end of the 70s - at that time the main designer was Alfred Gunther. I think you'll have a hard time finding out about the factory, I don't think much has been published...
Glaskilian states 1907-1986

Astrid, thanks for providing the information that Horst Tüsselman designed for them, I didn't know that (thinking of some of his vases for Peill, it comes to mind that he could be responsible for this one as well ???)

Düsseldorf Glasmuseum have a beautiful Ichendorf vase (http://duesseldorf.emuseum.net/code/emuseum.asp?style=text&currentrecord=51&page=search&profile=objectsde&searchdesc=ichendorf&quicksearch=ichendorf&action=quicksearch&wasaggregate=1&style=single&currentrecord=56) on their website, with inclusions similar to mine (but with smokey coloured top, almost like Gralglas).

The guy from artglassleiden.nl has a vase like mine (http://www.artglassleiden.nl/archives/18194) (and states that it has a label), so -- together with the small square mark -- I am quite positive about the ID.

BTW, I wasn't able to find another Ichendorf vase on the web with an etched mark...
Here are 2 with plastic labels: > Link 1 (http://www.glaskilian.de/Vase-Ichendorf-um-1974.650+B6YmFja1BJRD02NTAmcHJvZHVjdElEPTU2NjAmcGlkX3Byb2R1Y3Q9NjUwJmRldGFpbD0_.0.html), > Link2 (http://antik-glass.com/Ichendorf-Mischa.jpg).
Interestingly the square thing in those labels is not the dot of the i...

Astrid, a thread with confirmed pieces would be great (but regarding Ichendorf rather short ;D)
If it wasn't for labeled pieces we see on the web or fleamarkets, most of German glass would be almost impossible to ID.  That story with the Joska labels sounds rather depressing...

I still would have no clue about the maker of one of my favourite German vases (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,39751) if I hadn't run across the labeled twin in an antique shop; haven't seen another one of those since, not even on German ebay...

Michael
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: astrid on June 03, 2012, 06:27:22 PM
Astrid, thanks for providing the information that Horst Tüsselman designed for them, I didn't know that (thinking of some of his vases for Peill, it comes to mind that he could be responsible for this one as well ???)

This is the Ichendorf vase that is sometimes attributed to Tüsselman, but I'm not 100% sure, it's an attribution that I've seen a few times now, and it stuck because Tüsselman is not one of those names that is misused regularly.

Astrid
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: rocco on June 04, 2012, 03:29:27 PM
Thanks, Astrid. Pity that the Museum people didn't answer so far -- they seem to have the old catalogues, which migh help a lot in attributing unknown pieces, or in finding out designer and production date.

Your vase seems to be the most common (confirmed) Ichendorf design around; I have only seen one of them in real life, and they are very nice -- and very nicely executed.

Vases like my bubbly piece seem less common; I bid on one last November but didn't win it, then there is mine (which was on ebay for almost a year till I finally decided to contact the seller), and the one from the artglassleiden site...
But I have only been looking for that kind of vase for about a year, so not so scarce maybe.

edit: the Duesseldorf e-museum site refers to Ichendorf catalogues from 1973-75, unfortunately not available online, but they give a few designer names:
1973: Ichendorf-Design, Heinrich Sattler, Ralph Michel, Alfred Günther, Gilbert Kruft, Ulrike Penkert, Marianne Penkert, Gistl-Design
1974: Ichendorf-Design, Heinrich Sattler, Werner Bünck, Ralph Michel, Alfred Günther, Ulrike Penkert, Marianne Penkert, Gistl-Design
1975: Ichendorf-Design, Heinrich Sattler, Werner Bünck, Alfred Günther, Ulrike Penkert, Marianne Penkert, Wolfgang Klapp, Gistl-Design

Michael
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: CD on February 13, 2013, 07:34:27 PM
Hello,

this vase sometimes attributed to Tüsselman was designed by Hermann Penkert, director of the "Ichendorfer Glashuette" (ichendorf glasswork) from 1953 to 1986. It is in the catalog "Geformte Geschenke" (mouled presents) which contains a price list from 1969. The catalog will soon be published on www.ichendorfer-glasmuseum.de.

CD
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: rocco on February 13, 2013, 08:55:14 PM
Hi CD,
thank you so much for providing this information!
It is great to learn about the designer of this stunning vase.

Especially because there is so little info available about the Ichendorf Glashütte...
Looking forward to the publication of the catalogue on your website!

May I ask one more question: I have another Ichendorf suspect >> http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,50769.0.html (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,50769.0.html)
Or is it a different maker?

So thanks again,
Michael

edit: rereading your post - are you referring to my vase with bubbly inclusions which started this thread, or to the later mentioned square one? Thanks!
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: dirk. on February 13, 2013, 09:16:55 PM
Hi CD,

many thanks for the catalogue pages!  :)

p.s.: Michael, they have a jug and bottle named ´Rocco´ in their 1973 catalogue...  ;D
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: CD on February 17, 2013, 07:13:29 PM
Hi,

this is a correction: the name of the designer is Rudolf Penkert.

Here are the pages 1-52 to 1-55 from the 1969 Ichendorf catalog:


CD
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: CD on February 17, 2013, 07:30:41 PM
Hi Rocco,

reply to: German(?) brown bell-shape vase with powders and bubbles...

I haven't seen this vase yet in the Ichendorf catalogs.

CD
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: rocco on February 20, 2013, 08:51:16 AM
CD, thank you so much for posting the catalogue pages -- great to know the designer of those beautiful vases!

That leaves >> my vase (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,47817.0.html), which started this thread, still unidentified; it has a small square etched mark, and >> here (http://www.artglassleiden.nl/archives/18194) is another one which is obviously labeld, so it should be Ichendorf ???
Have you ever come across this design in one of your catalogues?

Michael
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: Frank on March 22, 2013, 09:54:44 PM
Looks like the same technique as used in 815 Silver Ice Tumbler designed by Ulrike Penkert. Other designers shown in Lisbon 72 are Marianne Penkert and Prof. H. Sattler. Presumably the Penkert family were a significant part of the glassworks?

815 is shown on this page but pics are too small to see the technique http://www.ichendorfer-glasmuseum.de/katalog1973teil3.htm

Some other Ichendorf pieces here http://www.glasrepliken.de/p_vergleich.htm
Title: Re: Ichendorf vase, show and tell
Post by: rocco on March 24, 2013, 10:54:17 AM
Thanks Frank for the links, the second one was new to me!
I think the Silver Ice pattern has nothing got to do with my vase; I have seen the design in real life, and they just have a moulded textured base.

Michael