Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => France => Topic started by: selina on June 11, 2007, 12:52:05 PM
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Hi all,
Bought 3 vases on the weekend at a charity sale. All came from the same deceased estate...apparently there is more to come but they couldnt bring it all...The first one I identified as a Riihimaki ?
The second clear one I thought may be Sklo Union but Im taking a guess..it measures 22cm high weighs just under a kilo and is 7 and 8cm wide at 2 different points.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7409
The decanter measures just over 21.5cm in height. Has etched ferns/leaves on it. Snapped pontil on the base. The lid is hollow and seems to be frosted inside. I was thinking moisture but I cannot find a crack or a hole and nothing Ive done has made any difference to it. Im thinking Victorian :-\ but Ive been wrong countless times...lol.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7408
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7407
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7406
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7405
Any help would be appreciated. I havent decided whether to keep these yet but if I dont, Id like to be able to describe them to some degree.
Thanks,
Selina
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Hi Selina, i keep comming back to your vase and each time i think French, but i could be totaly wrong, Marcus would know better, as to your decanter, the image's are a bit dark so it's hard to tell :-\ and are you sure the stopper fit's ?
Regard's Sue.
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Very pretty ferns on the decanter Selina, but I am not happy about that stopper... are the two pieces numbered by any chance?
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Sue, I've been thinking French about that one also - it reminds me of those vases where some of the panels are a red/burgundy colour. I really don't know for sure if it's Sklo Union or not but my gut feelings are that it's not. Cooooeeeeeyyyy Marcus :-)
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That's exactly what i thought Pip, Selina, take a good look at the base to see if there are any marks.
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I rather think Ivo is correct when he suggest Crystal d'Arques for this (see the comment below the photo in the gallery.) Pip I've seen them with the red panels as well... they are either Arques or Arcoroc I'm sure.
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Hi,
This does look similar to the French items that also came in plain flint and a pink/orange undecorated. If French it should show numbers to the base. If it has none, then a better image might help, preferably using a dark background, and an image of the base of the vase too, please.
Regards,
Marcus
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Hi all and thanks for your replies and help.
Ive been trying all morning to take a decent shot of them both. I either cant get the focus or the lighting or both correct. Ive taken what I can.
I cant find any markings on either of them. The decanter base is quite scratched so that makes it harder. Plus Im not great at finding marks, I seem to have blinkers on where they are concerned sometimes. The decanter lid fits but at the same time wiggles a bit.
Here are the shots Ive managed to take. Sorry if they are no further help..and Im a bit hopeless at using the 'proper descriptive terms' for the glass.
Ive taken a top view of the decanter also to show the twist effect.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7423
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7422
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7421
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7420
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7419
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7427
Trudy
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Hi again with this post...I took the extra pics so I hope noone minds that Ive bumped this back to the front. Mainly the ?French vase is the one I need help with...
Trudy
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I'm with Lynne in that I don't think your decanter stopper is original to the body of the decanter. A decanter stopper should echo or at least compliment the shape of the body - yours seems curiously 'out of bonk' (technical term ;)) somehow. :)
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I have the same vase. It has no marks and it's quite different to the French ones. Alternating windows are either deply concave or have a 4 part indented "x" split pattern with 2 sub-facets, convex and the other two, flat. So its like looking from the inside of a pyramid with two walls curving inwards. The top band of windows is different. It has altnernate convex and concave windows; no split pattern. The lower band has concave windows like the 4x but with 2 left out so it makes a wide-angle lens or surround screen shape alternating with the only windows to follow the natural curve of the vase. The base has a smooth indented concave well. It's similar to those on some Sklo Union vases but taking up more of the base area so that the base rim is very narrow. Within the base rim is a mold line. The glass clarity is as good as the geometric Sklo Union vases. Hopefully with this info Trudy's great pics will make more sense. Oh I just noticed there's also some kind of internal optic going on - horizontal. It feels really strange but probably the same as other internal optics. By the way I'm not saying that it is or isn't Sklo Union - I'm just using that as a coimparison. Could be other Czech or even Italian and maybe even Polish., I just don't know. Ed.
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Seeing the vase base I'd say it doesn't look like the French ones I've seen.
I've also some reservations about the stopper and the decanter - stylistically they look mis-matched.
Not much help I know, except in the elimination stakes perhaps. ::) :D
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Thanks guys..gals :) And every post does help me!
I had the feeling about the stopper, mainly because of the frosting inside which really throws it off. I thought it might match better if it was clear as it has the same bubble effect. But it really seems like condensation set in the bubble and made it dirty. No way to clean it at all.
Ed, your description was perfect!! I worry so much about how Im describing something because of the knowledge here on the board. Not being able to use the proper terms and then I know someone is going to pick me up on it :) I feel like Im back in school getting pointed out for the question in maths!!!
You see I mostly have an eye for nice glass...Ive had my mistakes but generally pick decent quality I hope. Everyone is great here on the board but I still find it daunting to make a post that sounds even remotely 'glassspeak'. On the other hand, Im learning slowly but surely, different terms.
Hope this post made sense after all that... NOT a criticism but merely a point of view from an amateur.
And btw...the vase is stunning on my cabinet, not sure if I will be parting with it at all now :)
Thanks again,
Trudy
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Trudy, please don't feel intimidated by the "experts" on the board - everyone has to learn somewhere, we weren't born knowing this stuff. I have to tell you that I (and others probably) still don't know what a lot of these technical terms mean either so just ask whatever way you can and we'll ask some more if we're not following you, and we'll all learn from each other. Main thing is to enjoy the board and remember we don't bite (well not after sunrise anyhow. >:D ) ;D
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AWWW Trudy, i'm the dunce of the board but, i love glass and have learned so much from the people here, but i'm also a bit of a terrier in that i dont like to let anything go, so will search every where for an item that hasn't been identified i try to help that way, the people here are lovely, why not drop in for a coffee sometime in the cafe? :) :)
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Trudy - firstly, there's no need to be intimidated by any of the members of this board - they're all brilliant and very patient (they've been incredibly patient with me over the past 18 months since I first crashed onto this board - literally!). I don't use proper glass speak at times - sometimes I might say it's got a 'pointy thing' or 'knobbly bit' and on the whole they know what I'm blithering on about.
Secondly, with regard to your vase - I'd still say it's probably not Sklo Union - have a really good look all over it with a magnifying glass - I've got a similar vase that I would have sworn was SU but Marcus doubted it and I couldn't find anything anywhere to identify it UNTIL I looked at it with my daughters magnifying glass and found the word 'FRANCE' almost invisibly hidden around the base.
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I have serious reservations about the base of this vase.....
hence my unwillingness to say Czech, sorry Trudy, Ed and others....
This MIGHT be Czech/French, but there are serious other candidates who need to be considered.
Regards,
M
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Thanks so much everyone. I know you are all lovely...and I everyone helps when they can on items Ive noticed.
Im not worried about where its from, just needed to know as it bugs me when I know nothing about an item..lol The only thing about France and seeing the word Arcoroc...all I can think of is our old dinner set that we used to have..lovely um brown colour and they used to bounce if you dropped them. ;D
And Id never heard of Sklo Union till I came here but since I got my two SU candle holders, Ive become a fan I have to say.
I will go over the vase again with a magnifying glass and find out where the cafe is. I guess the time difference is the only hinderance there. If I find anything then I will post for future reference for Ed or someone else.
Trudy
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It's a 24 hour cafe! ;)
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Looks like there's some kind of expert on Sklo Union in Glasgow (ebay). He says "IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE A ZEJMON VASE DESIGNED BY JIRI ZEJMON FOR RUDOLFOVA HUT" I've been over the the base with a magnifier and a loop. There are no marks of any kind. This is the best pic I have managed to take of it http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7976 (get big) as far as showing the pattern is concerned. It's a tricky one to photo well. Ed.
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http://www.sklounion.com/SkloUnion/Images/Zejmonvase-2.jpg
Please note this is a copyright image, and used here in accordance with CGR's copyright policy.
Personally, I do not think that this, a 13226 vase by Zejmon, is the item being offered in this sale.
Regards,
Marcus
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I forgot to mention, the Zemon vase came in two sizes, neither of which match this. A height of 22cms, is unusual in Sklo Union vase production.
Regards,
M
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Ed, great pic! I cant even look at it properly, let alone get a decent shot :)
Marcus, they are very similar. I had to put the vase next to the pic to make sure it wasnt the same. And ours are round, instead of square.
Shame they arent Sklo Union, Im becoming very fond of it ;D
Trudy
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Hi Trudy, i still think French and it's bugging me now, so out come's the terrier in me >:D i'm going on a mission to find this.
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Hi all,
I went to Belgium today, as the weather was so beautiful and I found this vase.
(http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10026/thumb_SP_A0019.jpg) (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7994)
It is wider than the one is question, but, to my eye, they look like they are the same pattern.
I apologise for the quality, but I only had my telephone camera with me. As you can see, this vase has a label for Luminarc. It wasn't signed, or marked in any way, just labelled.
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Della i could kiss you :-* it's been driving me bonker's.
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Aw shucks.....thanks Sue. :hug:
I didn't buy it, so I can't take a better photo. The link is clickable to a larger photo, which I forgot to say in my post.
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http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3200
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Aren't Luminarc and Cristal D'Arques both trade names used by JG Durand?
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Yep. Along with many others, I think.
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Both of those vases posted are similar pattern :) Just ours (Ed) are round, whereas they are square....so I guess we have French vases :clap: Would make things so much easier if they were just marked!
Thanks to all the 'terriers' that kept looking :)
Trudy
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Trudy, and all, 2 years on and I've now found one of the same vases as yours and Ed's and it is not the same as the ones Della and Chris showed by Luminarc. Mine is also 22cm tall, weighs 1001g, and has no mark for France anywhere on it. So whatever they are, they are not the aforementioned Luminarc vases. :-\
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Hi Anne,
I do beg to differ, something I do not often do, but the one I posted a photograph of, an identical, but larger item, as stated, was not marked, only labelled.
Della
x
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Hi Della, I didn't think I said the one you showed was marked? I said that mine wasn't marked (as per Pip's reply #15 about the marks often being small and hard to find.)
The one you showed is not the same as the one I have here which matches Trudy's - the base is different as are the panels.
Your base has indented arcs, mine is completely smooth, no arc indented at all.
Your panels are all the same, mine are alternate patterned/plain as Ed described in reply #10 above.
There are similarities between the vases but they are not the same. by any means.
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Just to throw something else into the mix. I have a very similar vase marked France and 18 on a bird bath bottom, and it's triangular. Variation by same maker or a popular style adapted by a number of makers?
David
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My guess is variations of a popular style by several makers David. How often do we see that! :)
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Finally, we have an answer to the taller thinner vases which Ed and I have in this topic! :hiclp:
Thanks to Margi who has posted a pic of hers complete with label, we know they are Crystal d'Arques.
See here for pics:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,29060.msg157656.html#msg157656