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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Germany => Topic started by: rocco on April 24, 2011, 02:45:06 PM

Title: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase ID=Klaus Breit, Wiesenthalhütte
Post by: rocco on April 24, 2011, 02:45:06 PM
I had seen this vase for some months on the fleamarket (professional dealer), quite liked it and had it in my hands several times but didn't want to spend a serious amount of money; until yesterday, when the seller obviously didn't want to carry it home once more, and left it to one of the people who sell the remains of other sellers in the late afternoon; he wanted 1 Euro for it, so now it is mine :)

Stands 21,5 cm tall and is quite heavy. Rim is ground and bevelled, outside has an irregular bumpy structure, inside is smooth. It is mould-blown, I guess. Quite a lot of wear to the bottom.
The colour is a really glowing golden-amber -- that is why I checked it under my poor UV lamp: and the cut rim glows green! So I guess there is some Uranium in it...

Ideas? - Age, country,...? I guess because the shape is so common it will be quite impossible to ID this, but any suggestions very much appreciated!

Thanks
Michael
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: Ivo on April 24, 2011, 03:27:23 PM
Ooh look at that a miniature!
Mine is 34 cms tall!
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: dirk. on April 24, 2011, 03:33:49 PM
Purely speculative... but the colours both look like Wiesenthalhütte?
Astrid may know more...  :huh:
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: rocco on April 24, 2011, 04:04:49 PM
Thank you very much, Ivo and Dirk!!

Ivo, your vase does look similar -- mine just seems to be more massive (and the texture is different as far as I can see).

Dirk, if I was forced to guess ;D I would have said German as origin, but I am sure this style was produced all over the world...
I did a quick search for Wiesenthalhütte, and found this bowl in a very similar colour: http://cgi.ebay.at/1970-glas-schale-WIESENTHAL-huette-pop-panton-aera-massiv-/200452391198 (http://cgi.ebay.at/1970-glas-schale-WIESENTHAL-huette-pop-panton-aera-massiv-/200452391198)
BTW, the bowl on ebay reminds me of a Neodymium ashtray I posted some time ago, of which you thought it could possibly be Wiesenthalhütte as well: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,38694.0.html (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,38694.0.html)

edit: looked at the Wiesenthalhütte items on the Glaskilian page, and there is both
colour:
http://www.glaskilian.de/Vase-Wiesenthalhuette-in-Schwa.797+B6YmFja1BJRD03OTcmcHJvZHVjdElEPTEzOTc0JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTc5NyZkZXRhaWw9.0.html (http://www.glaskilian.de/Vase-Wiesenthalhuette-in-Schwa.797+B6YmFja1BJRD03OTcmcHJvZHVjdElEPTEzOTc0JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTc5NyZkZXRhaWw9.0.html)
and surface texture:
http://www.glaskilian.de/Vase-Wiesenthalhuette-in-Schwa.797+B6YmFja1BJRD03OTcmcHJvZHVjdElEPTExNjg0JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTc5NyZkZXRhaWw9.0.html (http://www.glaskilian.de/Vase-Wiesenthalhuette-in-Schwa.797+B6YmFja1BJRD03OTcmcHJvZHVjdElEPTExNjg0JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTc5NyZkZXRhaWw9.0.html)
similar to my vase -- I guess Dirk is right!!!

What about the Uranium issue?

Michael
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 24, 2011, 04:08:09 PM
Uranium seems unlikely. It would have to be a very bright green glow . A bit of a glow usually means manganese decoloriser.
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: rocco on April 24, 2011, 04:15:59 PM
Thanks, Christine -- I did hope that a Uranium expert would chime in :)
As I don't have a good UV lamp it is hard to tell how strong the glow should be -- so I am sure you are right!

Michael
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 24, 2011, 04:21:32 PM
You don't need a good UV light. A little one held against the edge should give a bright glow in everything except bright sunlight.
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: astrid on April 24, 2011, 06:08:04 PM
Well, since all the pieces of the puzzle were already in perfect position thanks to Dirk and Michael, I can assemble it from the catalogue:

I can conform that Wiesenthalhütte made a block vase in the series that was linked to, pattern 1134 21 cm high, designed by Klaus Breit. And they did use the colour "spectral gelb" in those years.

Sounds like a match to me,

Astrid
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: dirk. on April 24, 2011, 08:50:16 PM
Thanks for confirming, Astrid! Isn´t it amazing how inventive those german glassworks were
when it came to colour names? spectral gelb, neurot, elektron, mink...  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: rocco on April 24, 2011, 09:09:53 PM
Thank you very much, Astrid!!
When I put my vase here for ID I thought the best I could expect would be guesses about its origin -- and now I know glasswork, designer and even pattern number. So great!

If you see this vase in bright daylight the colour name "spectralgelb" fits quite well :)

Michael

Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: astrid on April 24, 2011, 09:25:51 PM
I checked if I could find a design for 34 cm high as well for Ivo's, but so far no luck. It appears the tallest one they made of this design was 25 cm. They made tall floor vases in the early seventies, but only round ones.

Also, another interesting thing to add to the yellow vase: Wiesenthalhütte apparently only made the 'spectralgelbe' for a very short time. It's only mentioned as a possible colour in the 1967-1968 catalogue, in the 1968-1969 it was already removed from the list. This might indicate that year of design is also year of production in this particular case = 1967-1968.

Astrid
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: Ivo on April 24, 2011, 09:29:42 PM
the design similarity cinches it for mine, I think - even if a 34 cm cannot be documented. There is a very high probability...
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: astrid on April 25, 2011, 05:31:26 AM
I checked the photographs of what I could find. While the 60s examples all seem to have the more pointy surface structure as the yellow vase shows, the later examples from the 70s do seem look a bit more 'stripy', like yours, but mainly at the rim.

Also, the Wiesenthalhütte catalogues look very thorough to me. Each year they made a new one, meticulously added new designs and taking old designs that were no longer in production. They always added a new entry for a new height as well, with a different catalogue number. The 25 cm version of this vase for instance has number 1130, and the 1134 is strictly reserved for the 21 cm version.

And given that this design is not the most difficult to copy, I'm not entirely convinced that it's Wiesenthalhütte. If floor vases came into fashion in the early 70s, some other German factory might have gone back and used the basic idea of this design?

Astrid
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: mrvaselineglass on April 25, 2011, 11:33:58 AM
I have no doubt that your piece will glow green under a blacklight.  Several companies have made 'golden amber' or 'honey amber' that glows green.  The way that color is achieved is by increasing the uranium salts from about 2% (normal vaseline/canary yellow glass) to 10% or more.  Here are a couple of examples from WMF:

http://www.vaselineglass.org/wmftrio.jpg (http://www.vaselineglass.org/wmftrio.jpg)
http://www.vaselineglass.org/wmf2a.jpg (http://www.vaselineglass.org/wmf2a.jpg)
The little dog figurine is by Boyd in the first link above.  It also glows green and is a contemporary piece.

Thomas Webb also made a similar color.

I even have some cut pieces that glow green.  here is a covered sugar bowl that I obtained recently.
http://www.vaselineglass.org/honeyamber160.jpg (http://www.vaselineglass.org/honeyamber160.jpg)

Someplace in my computer, I have info for a patent from about 1925, that describes a patent for a color process that uses a heavy percentage of uranium dioxide to made a 'red henna' coloration.  (think hair dye for the 'henna' color).

I was curious about the amount of beta waves being emitted from a piece that increases the amount of uranium salts.  A friend of mine has a geiger counter and I took a couple of pieces to him for testing.  First, we tested a control piece of regular yellow-green glass.  the setting was set at "1X" and the needle went to about 70 on a range that topped out at 100.  We then tested the honey or golden amber piece.  At '1X', it buried the needle.  at the 10X setting, it buried the needle.  at '100X', it put the needle up to about 70 and clicked away like a cricket farm! 

The radiation emitted is beta waves, which dissipate at a distance of 18-24 inches.  The radiation can be blocked by putting it in a glass cabinet if you are concerned about the radiation.  If it still is a concern, I would gladly offer to reimburse you for your cost and would pay the postage and I could take it off your hands!  LOL

Mr. Vaseline Glass
(Dave Peterson)
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: dirk. on April 25, 2011, 02:01:27 PM
Many thanks for the info, Dave! I have a Wiesenthalhtte vase in spectral gelb, too. Don't
think I checked it, but I'll do when I get home tonight...  :)
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 25, 2011, 03:29:18 PM
I didn't doubt that amber might glow bright green, as I too have several different pieces that do, just that this particular one did. I would be interested to know what Dirk thinks.
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: rocco on April 25, 2011, 07:19:23 PM
Thank you Dave for your interesting contribution!
I saw a green glow only at the cut rim of the vase -- but there it was obvious. So I don't know if this is due to my UV light bulb or due to the fact it is a Manganese glow.
Anyway, in bright daylight the vase looks like a gold bar!

I am sure you and Christine will solve this :)

And I am curious how Dirk's vase in "spectral gelb" will respond...

Michael
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: dirk. on April 26, 2011, 04:21:19 AM
I just did a UV check and my vase glows brightly - but yellowish orange. Is it Cadmium then?
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 26, 2011, 06:18:10 AM
Sounds like it to me.
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: rocco on April 28, 2011, 04:02:12 PM
My vase is becoming more and more interesting...

While cleaning it today I noticed the green glow even in bright daylight -- so I looked closer, and realized that the vase is actually made of two different coloured layers of glass: an outer thick amber coloured layer, and a thin glowing green layer inside, which looks very much like Uranium to me (that explains perhaps why I saw the green glow under blacklight only at the rim).

Tried my best to capture this on the pics.

Now I know why the vase looks like it had a built-in light -- "spectral gelb" :)
A very elaborate technique IMO (wouldn't have expected that from Wiesenthalhütte).

Michael
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: rocco on April 30, 2011, 02:23:49 PM
Sorry to bump this, but I am really interested in what you think about my "German Uranium sommerso vase" :)

Am I right that the inner layer is Uranium glass? I guessed so because of the strong green glow in sunlight. Or would a Manganese glow be visible in daylight, too?
And would the thick amber layer explain why the glow isn't visible at the sides of the vase, just at the rim, and why Dirk couldn't see it? (Depending on the design of the rim in his vase).

Anyway, it is an absolutely stunning technique...
Astrid, is this mentioned in the Wiesenthalhütte book?

Thanks,
Michael
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: Cathy B on May 01, 2011, 08:21:15 AM
Michael, see if you can position the light to shine into it, and see whether the inner surface glows. From your description it shouldn't because if that inner layer were uranium you'd expect the glow to show through the amber layer, but it would help settle the issue one way or the other.
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: rocco on May 01, 2011, 03:25:16 PM
Thank you very much for your contribution, Cathy!
I was thinking Uranium because the (glowing) green inner layer is only obvious in bright daylight. So you think this may just be green coloured glass without Uranium content?

I will try to test the vase at work next week -- if it doesn't glow bright under the blacklights there (two batteries of 6 UV fluorescents each ;D), it is certainly not Uranium...

Michael
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: rocco on May 04, 2011, 12:29:20 PM
Tested at work today; now it's official -- no green glow even under several strong UV fluorescents. Only the orange glow Dirk observed in his vase.

I promise I will not test for Uranium at home any more until I have a better blacklight! :-[
 
Still a fascinating use of colours with the thick amber around the bright green (non Uranium :usd:) layer.
And quite elaborate --  maybe that is why the use of "spectral gelb" was omitted so soon?

Michael
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: dirk. on May 05, 2011, 08:16:17 PM
Sorry for not coming back earlier! Been a bit busy for the last days...
I´ve just checked my vase again and it seems to consist of three layers. The middle layer shows a strong
cadmium glow while the others don´t. I remember a similar reaction on this Gralglas piece:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108140812446658939096/Gralglas#5588847697145821618
Wether it´s just a question of the colour effect or technical reasons as well (the glassblower taking more
glass after blowing the first little bubble) is beyond my knowledge I´m afraid.  :huh:
Title: Re: Thick-walled golden amber rectangular vase, textured surface, Uranium content
Post by: rocco on May 06, 2011, 03:19:53 PM
Thank you very much for looking once more, Dirk!
My vase has definately 2 layers (I think the thin bright-green layer is quite clearly visible in my close-up pics).

Still nice that Wiesenthalhütte put so much effort in a single-coloured block vase :)

Michael