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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: soledivo on July 31, 2008, 09:39:35 PM

Title: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: soledivo on July 31, 2008, 09:39:35 PM
I bought this at an auction last Friday, it was labeled "Scottish Vase".
Can anyone go further than that or was the Auction house off the mark ?
It's 20 cm high,  and weighs a ton.

any ideas on value would be appreciated

http://i33.tinypic.com/m55ib.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/fe4dg6.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/30hsqx1.jpg

many thanks

martin

Moderator:  Images added to post with consent of the poster.
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Frank on August 01, 2008, 09:23:10 AM
The auction houses know this is not Monart but by labelling as Scottish they get more bids, were it Whitefriars you could bet there would be a big fuss.

This is what I coined the term "Cellophane Glass", in the 1980s, current favourite is Bohemian. Search on this board to read more...
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: soledivo on August 01, 2008, 10:03:53 AM
great, thanks Frank,
I had a good read, your site too, interesting topic,

I think I'l hang on to this 1 for a while.

regards

martin
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Frank on August 01, 2008, 10:08:23 AM
I think they are highly collectable, although will require strong shelves if you get a lot. The reds and blues are delightful and most of the shapes are evocative of 50's style despite being somewhat earlier than that. Several Monart collectors keep examples of these. One day we will find the maker.
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: soledivo on August 01, 2008, 12:25:33 PM
@ Frank, so would 1930's be about right for this one, or am off the mark?

martin
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Anne on August 01, 2008, 01:13:30 PM
Martin, as tinypic images tend to vanish after a while, could we save a copy of your pics into the topic for future reference please?  If it's OK with you one of the Mods will do it for you.  Thanks. :)
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: soledivo on August 01, 2008, 01:23:06 PM
@ Anne,
please take this as my consent with pleasure to use any pics I post on this forum,

regards
martin

"edit"
I will be using the gallery from now on, but I'm too lazy to resize all of my pics
new one I'l save there,
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Anne on August 01, 2008, 02:39:26 PM
That's great, thanks Martin. I've amended the first post with the images. :)
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Andy on August 03, 2008, 11:10:06 AM
Nice one Martin,
i expect you found this link,
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,22153.0.html

as Frank says, one day , a maker will be found, and of course then the value will go up.
They are quality pieces, and im always looking out for more.
Value, at a guess, at the moment £30-50, but in the right auction, and with a name, who knows??
Good investment piece  ;D  (Martin, i suppose its worth what you paid at the auction)
Regards
Andy

ps. They look great with the sunshine streaming through!
pps. I think Franks name of Cellophane glass,is great, and will probably catch on ;D
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: soledivo on August 03, 2008, 04:31:04 PM
thanks everyone,
funny how talking to like minded people about a vase has increased my enjoyment of it.

@Andy I paid £20, so I'm enjoying even more, hehe

martin
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Andy on August 03, 2008, 10:26:23 PM
Martin,
i would give you a 10% profit straight away!
 ;D
In a year or 2 s time, you can probably add a nought!
Id love to know where they came from,
watch this space, im waiting for a delivery of another one, not sure its quite the same until
i open the parcel, i dont think its got a polished pontil, but im feeling confident its a 'keeper'
Andy
 :D
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Andy on August 04, 2008, 02:56:46 PM
Ah hah!
just found this, another thinks its Monart, a bit out of my price range  ;)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Large-Heavy-Hand-Blown-Monart-Vase_W0QQitemZ380050474877QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item380050474877&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318

(Frank, seller is in Scotland though! )

Andy 8)
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Frank on August 04, 2008, 03:51:29 PM
I am surprised he did that, I sent him a note. A lot of these have of course ended up in Scotland, almost every Ysart collector has had one or more of these at some point  :)
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: johnphilip on August 04, 2008, 04:30:03 PM
I bought one of those vases about five years ago at Goodwood the guy told me he bought it in Belgium.
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Andy on August 04, 2008, 07:17:31 PM
I sent chap a polite note, he says 'Peter Holmes' ? looked at it and thought it was Vasart,
Does anyone know the name?
Cheers,
Andy
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: soledivo on August 04, 2008, 07:27:48 PM
Andy, it doesn't sound like he's going to take notice of you and Frank.
I looked at his feedback, not awful but it would concern me.

martin
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Frank on August 04, 2008, 07:45:11 PM
Peter is probably not that familiar with Monart/Vasart, although he does makes Ysart style glassware to and his is very thick walled.

Peter Holmes    1947 –     Caithness Glass: trainee 1963, Head of paperweight team. Assistant to Paul Ysart c1963– c1970. Made Caithness jewellery after Paul Ysart left to 1977. Established Selkirk Glass in 1977. Left Selkirk Glass in 200?

Now he can be found here: http://scottish-borders-art-glass.ecrater.com/
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Andy on August 06, 2008, 03:26:55 PM
Thanks guys,
In my opinion, the sellers not doing anything wrong here , really, he has had it looked at,
and the fact that some agree and some disagree, makes me think its up to the buyer,and at that price,
it would probably only attract Monart collectors, who will have to decide for themselves!

Looked at Peter Holmes work, very nice, and very similar to both Monart and Cellophane,
this one in gold,
http://scottish-borders-art-glass.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=1134207
is very like the purple one ive just received, and put on here,
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,22328.0.html
although, i think mine is probably circa mid 20thC, (just by the age wear)

Regards
Andy
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Frank on August 06, 2008, 05:45:14 PM
There is supposed to be an attributed example in the Passau Museum, I could not find it when there and there was no-one knowledgeable to ask... always meant to write to them but the years tick by.

Why it is not Ysart.
1. Colour Palette.
2. Mould blown.
3. Metal.
4. Shape.
5. Finishing.
6. Not Ysart technique.
7. Paul Ysart said it was not.
8. Ian said it was not.
9. Nigel said it was not.
10. Frank... etc.  :sleep:

Why people think it is Monart.
1. Because sellers label it as Monart including 'reliable' auction houses.
2. Because it comes in two colours (This is of course a unique characteristic of Monart and Vasart)
3. Because Monart gets better money.
4. A Glass-maker told them it was.
5. Because it is stated as Monart on 'Is it Whitefriars' along with a rude remark about me  ;D
 ::)

Twenty-five years ago it was Schneider because
1. Because sellers label it as Schneider including 'reliable' auction houses.
2. Because it comes in two colours (This is of course a unique characteristic of Schneider)
3. Because Scheider was well known1 and gets better money.
4. Monart was a complete unknown.
 :huh:

1 Strange that a few years ago many visitors to this board did not know Schneider, but did know Monart.


Good job this one was not listed as a rare retro by a famous 60s designer working in London  ;)

Perhaps I should take Ysartglass down permanently, save me some money.
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Frank on August 06, 2008, 08:00:55 PM
Just noticed that postage to the Netherlands is 85  :o ounds!
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Andy on August 06, 2008, 08:47:34 PM
Yeah, but,' Parcelforce Global Priority'  !!


Frank,
thanks, great info, very much appreciated,
I will keep looking for these, apologies if you have to repeat yourself over the years,
any info i find out, i will pass on!

 ;)
Andy

ps .  but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

pps, dare i ask, wot about my new purple bowl??
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,22328.0.html

Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: soledivo on August 06, 2008, 09:36:57 PM
So thats how you make a profit, I knew I was doing something wrong  :angel:
Title: Re: I.d. scottish vase ??
Post by: Frank on August 06, 2008, 09:39:54 PM
No need for apologies, it is often better to iterate the full background of an attribution when dissenting voices are aired. Perhaps I should add a page to the web-site:

"Cellophane Glass - an alternative for cash strapped collectors of great glass." 8)

With a subtitle:
"A 30 year hunt for the maker."  ;D

- Of course it will push the prices up.
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Gary on January 30, 2010, 12:14:42 AM
This vase poses more questions than answers, the vase has some Ysart styles i.e the whorl, gold aventurine and the thistle shape of the vase but there the similarity stops, it is much to heave, wrong type of pontil and it has a "cellophane" type decoration though only on the bottom half.
To add some info on the "cellophane" attribution Monart did do something not unlike that kind of decoration, shown here on the fourth pic which is Monart shape GE.


 
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Andy on February 02, 2010, 10:41:12 AM
Gary,
its interesting, yours looks quite different to the other Cellophane examples,
id be interested in Franks opinion on it.
One just sold on ebay for a reasonable price ,
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130361024488&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

A bit off topic , Martin, the pics in the orig post, is the vase sitting on an Ercol table?
It looks the same as mine.  ;D
Cheers
Andy
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Gary on February 02, 2010, 04:23:24 PM
Hi Andy
I do have one vase more like the " usual Cellophane", which I bought on the dreaded eBay a couple of years ago as a piece of Monart, which I know now it is not, lesson learned as they say. A real heavy piece standing 19cm tall and 23 wide at the top.

Gary
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Andy on February 02, 2010, 08:18:37 PM
Same colours as your Monart bowl :thup:
I quite like them, and i hope , one day, we find out where they came from!

Andy
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Frank on February 03, 2010, 11:53:36 AM
I'd like to see clearer pics of the small bowl. The footed vase does not look like a cellophane. If it is heavier glass than Monart I would think it is Peter Holmes or Strathearn. With the vase larger pics  might help too. Tried lightening abd blowing up but no detail shows. Looks like vary different approach to decorating than the Ysart way. WMF Ikora is not impossible, not very likely.
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Gary on February 04, 2010, 03:57:51 PM
Hi
Here are some more clearer!! pics.
Gary
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Frank on June 18, 2011, 07:19:04 PM
The red blue is the same colours as in Plate 40 of Ysart glass and as I mention there usually found with white inner and on surface decorated. Probably Kugler colours so not surprising if we find a match to cellophane, but you would need to have it next to a piece of that to be sure it is the same. Of course the Ysart's made little use of translucent colours whereas all the cellophane is. The small size gives it greater intensity.

The other piece is not cellophane nor Monart but could be Scottish... or not.
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Gary on June 17, 2012, 10:47:09 AM
One more "cellophane" glass(IMHO) vase appears on eBay described as Monart.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAGNIFICENT-LARGE-VINTAGE-SCOTTISH-MONART-ART-GLASS-MOTTLED-FLARED-PH-V-VASE-/190691532853?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item2c6619e035
Gary
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Frank on June 18, 2012, 08:33:54 PM
Yep, and perhaps the most common colour/shape too. Pity it is a Scottish seller someone may get lead astray!
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Gary on September 04, 2012, 07:12:27 PM
Three more and all from the same vendor and he changed the description from  Monart ? to definitely Monart in the last hour. Has he found some new information ::)  on the maker.
Gary
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Gary on September 04, 2012, 08:04:39 PM
Here is the link I should have put in last post
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?LH_Auction=1&_nkw=monart&_dmpt=UK_Art_Glass&_ipg=&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283&_rdc=1
Gary
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Frank on September 04, 2012, 10:30:49 PM
That really is appalling so many wrongly described pieces - no matter how much info you give some people they are still too lazy to learn. Or they are way beyond hope  ???
Quote
Large MONART vase 26cm high x 18cm large part of the vase  ,weight 1,400kg

FANTASTIC AND VERY RARE PIECE OF MURANO GLASS

AN EXQUISITE ITALIAN BLOWN GLASS ITEM WICH WOULD MAKE A FANTASTIC ADDITION TO A CONTEMPORARY GLASS COLLECTION
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Gary on September 05, 2012, 05:54:53 AM
The vendor as now withdrawn the three pieces.
Gary
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Frank on September 06, 2012, 10:23:02 PM
Good for him, glad you are flying the flag Gary :)
Title: Re: scottish vase ?? = Cellophane
Post by: Gary on January 12, 2013, 12:22:06 PM
It is nice to see some ebey sellers to take heed of information given to them. This vase was originally listed as Monart.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-Monart-Art-Glass-Vase-1930s-40s-/190780700407?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item2c6b6a76f7
Gary