Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: Wuff on December 14, 2010, 07:48:21 PM
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310279178903
Seller insists it's Whitefriars, because a "paperweight expert" told her
"Whitefriars did make this type of weight in very small numbers and it could have been made after Caithness bought the company out in 1980. Its value would be around £50."
I still have my doubts ;-). My first bet would be on Webb-Corbett ... what do you say?
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Looks like a Webb Corbett to me ;D
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I have a Webb & Cobbett weight and the windows, etc. seem very Webb. The idea of the seahorse is very Caithness - but it surely would be marked. Interesting to look at the item description where it is listed as WEDGEWOOD !!!!!!.
Another creative descriptor - with a bit each way.
Ross
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not whitefriars. they did do clear engraved weights for 1972 olympics and royal wedding. they also did some flash overlays on millefiori weights in the late 70s. they did not do any like this. whilst caithness may have done etch deisgns they do not do them under the whitefriars brand post 1980. however the box is genuine. even auction houses have sold webb corbetts and others as whitefriars if they came in a whitefriars box!
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Thank you for your comments!
Let me start with a statement: this is NOT Caithness, neither before nor after they took Whitefriars over. After all - I am managing the paperweight section of ScotlandsGlass (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/), with the Caithness catalogue (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=159&Itemid=51) being the largest project: images of more than 4'000 Caithness paperweights are in my archive (not all online yet) - this weight is not one of them, and they never made anything only close to it.
Let's forget Wedgwood - just mentioned as "maker" in the header, but not in the description itself.
It is well known (though sad) that even prestigious auction houses have been fooled by items packed in the wrong boxes. I have also experienced several occasions when people working at auction houses were considered (by others or themselves) as paperweight experts, only because they worked at an auction house (though didn't have a clue about paperweights) - so one has to be careful with their "expertise".
Webb Corbett has been doing several flash overlays with engraved bases (Queen Victoria, spiders, dragonflies, and seahorses come to my mind) - often marked. I have seen quite a few identically looking, unmarked paperweights. Not being a Webb Corbett specialist, I don't know if they also sold their weights unmarked - or whether these unmarked weights are copies (to avoid the word fakes). Similar (at first sight) weights have come from Murano - but not with the base engraved; instead some sort of transfer/decal printing (not sure about the correct English word for images applied to the surface, not inside the weight) was used.
So this weight is definitely not "Caithness/Whitefriars" - and we seem to agree it's not "original Whitefriars" either. Instead it is either a genuine (though not signed) Webb Corbett - or just an imitation.
Further comments are welcome.
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Looks very much like my dragonfly weight,I've four weights,no marks only one with a sticker
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Hi all
I have an identical weight to the one listed on E-bay except that the seahorse faces the other way.
No one has mentioned the base, mine is deeply dished. I have not seen a first quality Caithness
plain or overlay with anything other than a flat polished base marked with "Caithness", product code
and if a limited edition the edition no. Caithness/Whitefriars are slightly different in that ones with a
clear ground sometimes have a star pattern cut into the flat base and the ID is sometimes engraved
with a diamond point around the lower edge of the dome. So I agree with Wuff we can dismiss this
weight being either Caithness or Caithness/Whitefriars.
Keith - you say one of your weights has a label but not what the label is - Webb-Corbett?? I have
only seen one weight with a Webb Corbett label and from memory they are large labels stuck onto
one of the side facets. If this is the norm, then it’s not surprising we don’t see many with labels!
Webb-Corbett were renowned for their lead crystal and my weight is definitely lead crystal with a
cobalt flash overlay. Mine appears to be engraved rather than etched and the engraving is fairly crude
as you can see from the closeup. So I think it was made to a price rather than for quality which
tends to point away FROM it being Whitefriars as does the lack of the Whitefriars “button”.
There is an excellent collectors guide to Whitefriars paperweights produced by Brian Slingsby who
was the technical manager (chemist) at Whitefriars from 1968 until they closed in 1980. Although
seeming to be very comprehensive, there is no mention in this booklet of any similar weights to the
one in question.
You see lots of these flash overlay weights at "antique" and collector fairs and another common
design is a ships wheel whilst others just have a star cut base. My vote goes to Webb-Corbett.
Best regards
Derek
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I agree with the Webb Corbett attribution. They were taken over by Royal Doulton in 1969, but the name continued until 1986 I believe. There is a tenuous Wedgwood link - in 1986 Wedgwood were acquired by Waterford Crystal, and in 2005 Royal Doulton were bought by the Waterford Wedgwood Group.
If you have a similar item that is not lead cyrstal, and it has a rather thin overlay - then I think Murano are the culprits.
Alan
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OOps,sorry Derek,here it is :pb: :24:
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Hi Keith
Thanks for picture of the label - doesn't look as if they were too careful as to where they stuck them!
The one you show is one is one of the star cut bases I referred too.
If you have a loupe take a look at the base and see it you can discern whether your other ones are
etched or engraved. If its etched all the cutting will appear to be the same depth or possibly two
depths if they used a second mask. Mine shows many levels and smooth curves from the deepest
part of the cut to the surface - something that is not possible with etching.
Best regards
Derek
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Very smooth with a uniform depth on all,not sure what you mean by yours having 'many levels' :huh:
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Hi Keith
The various cuts making up the seahorse are not all to the same depth.
If yours is all a uniform depth yours could be etched - strange !
Best regards
Derek
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Sorry I'm an idiot :pb: thought you were referring to the star cut bases,the dragonfly has at least two levels of depth but is quite shallow and basic in form.