Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Tigerchips on November 12, 2005, 09:17:44 AM
-
Have a look at Danish Retro Design website (Link is on Glasoholics). There is a bowl on there described as Holmegaard.
Here's my Ikea bowl
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10011/Picture%20525.jpg
I sent this message to them
The Holmegaard bowl. Is the Ikea sticker still on it? It's on mine. :)
Here's the reply
Irregular grinding is recognizing Holmegaard
Holmegaards glasswerks stopped ingraving for a period of some years
before 1969 They started again in 1969
because of demand from customers
it means that this bowl is from the period without ingraving
Ikea which is a swedish retailchain, is one of many retailers who has sold Holmegaard
our bowl is without label
Per Lytken is the designer of this beautiful bowl
BTW, and i'm positive it's totally unrelated, I recieved a virus before this message came. Nice.
-
Tiger, This is an imprtant question of ID
so I'm moving it to the main Glass forum for serious consideration.
Here's the bowl on that website http://danish-retro.com.linux1.unoeuro.com/1200_012.htm
It's important we question ID's that we see online as long as we don't question the bona fides of the seller. Anyone can make a mistake.
-
Ikea then? I could have swore blind that it was BAYEL.
:(
-
What about the sellers detailed response then? If we are going to deal with misattribution those statements need to be addressed too.
I once had a very similar Lutken piece but signed.
-
(http://tinypic.com/fm0z1t.jpg)
according to Dansk Glas that one was aqua blue.
-
I agree Frank but I am bemused by the comments
I don't understand the comment about "irregular grinding".
I do remember Ivo or someone elese saying that Holmegarrd did stop signing their glass ...but I thought in the 70's ???
I very much doubt that IKEA ever sold any Holmegaard glass but I have no proof. I am basing my opinion only on the fact that IKEA sell very very cheaply whereas Holmegaard are have not been a low cost maker - on the contrary.
I do not think this bowl is by Holmegaard but again that's just my opinion.
I will look for the thread where we last discussed this.
When questionning an ID with a seller by email, I have found it useful to refer them to this board. I usually write something like.
"I do not think your item is XXXXX. See / try asking at .. www.glassmessages.com"
Since I started doing that, I have had nothing but "Thank you" notes in return, often mentioning that they are pleased to find a place where theuy can identify their items. They also often volunteer that they have changed or cancelled their listing.
-
Ikea is a furniture store which has always been responsible for its own designs - most of it quite original, some of it leaning heavily on trends set by others. They have TTBOMK never sold Holmegaard glass.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1240464,00.html
-
How did I miss this!
Two bombs explode in Dutch branches
-
some of it leaning heavily on trends set by others
This is polite-speak for blatant design theft, aye? :lol:
Many of their lighting pieces are direct copies of 1950's-70's lighting, even down to exact same measurements, which always makes buying them a bit of a minefield for me... I daresay many of their other ranges are equally plagurised.
-
Old design are often resold by the corporate owners after they bought up a glassworks - it is a normal part of the business known as asset stripping. Good that IKEA gives them a new lease of life at affordable prices.
Also industrial copyright rarely lasts longer than 25 years after which the designs can be used by anyone who can see them as having potential.
So it is not polite-speak for blatant design theft. IKEA have no need to do such a thing.
-
Actually, whilst we're on the mis-attributed glass topic... I'm really irked by this guy, who labels practically anything and everything as Holmegaard - even after I pointed him in the direction of Kaj Franck as the designer of one of his dishes (directing him to a site with photographs of labeled pieces of said dish):
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7365845622
-
Well we cannot persuade everyone to do proper research, good that you tried :)
-
Good that IKEA gives them a new lease of life at affordable prices.
This I would agree with if they tweaked the design slightly, or in the least gave them some kind of permanent stamp, but exact repros tend to sully the market for original pieces and degrade the price. :(
-
Tweaked the design :o :? :shock: aaarghhh, don't let the designer here that. There is bound to be differences that the collector can learn and anything that can degrade prices has to be good for us poor collectors :!:
-
But it doesn't help us poor sellers very much! :lol:
I agree, there are usually signs - usually internal parts that would have been metal/bakelite being replaced with cheapo plastic parts - but these are hard to spot over eBay, where I tend to buy stock from reasonably regularly.
-
Actually, whilst we're on the mis-attributed glass topic... I'm really irked by this guy, who labels practically anything and everything as Holmegaard - even after I pointed him in the direction of Kaj Franck as the designer of one of his dishes (directing him to a site with photographs of labeled pieces of said dish):
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7365845622
Funny how I have these things 'filed away' in my head, but I think this seller could also be Pravitx2, a familiar face on the glass section of ebay.
I remember writing to him/her ages ago about a similar misattributed item.
-
I've tried pointing him in the right direction with two different items, but with no response whatsoever. Sound familiar?
-
You can't win them all. There are lots of eBay sellers that will defend there misattributions to the death!
Just cross them off your list :roll:
-
Indeed, this is true. I shall just have to grit my teeth each time I see the words 'Holmegaard Gull Art Glass' come up on eBay searches.
Lord knows what seabirds and their art glass have to do with Holmegaard! :lol:
Can we petition eBay to have a rule against stubbornly ignorant people, though? Pretty please? :wink: :D
-
Gull-ible :?:
-
Well he's slowly selling his "Holmegaard" - so it must be the case! :lol: :twisted:
-
As we have become aware that there is a discussion going on conserning our honesty we would like to be a part of this discussion. We have quite right received the mail from Tigerchips and replied as shown. When we became of this discussion on our honesty as well as one of our items, our initial thought was to believe the honesty of the seller where we have bought the bowl. However we have to be sure that we don't misrepresent our items. Because of this we have conferred with a very recognized expert in Denmark. Sadly we have been mislead when buying this bowl and have learned that the item is NOT a Holmegaard. Of course this means that we have already asked our Webmaster to change the listing as you will be able to see one of the next days.
In the future we will be more careful with ID's and will consult real experts before naming designers and makers. Furthermore we will check all the items we have ID'd.
Conserning the discussion on whether Holmegaard has been sold at IKEA - our response to Tigerchips was based on the fact that we cannot dismiss that IKEA might have sold Holmegaard but the way we read Tigerchips' mail - he/she stated that the IKEA lable was a verification of the ID - we only say "it is not".
Frank is right that Holmegaard signed their things up to the 70'ies and they continued to do this with the most recognized and prized designs.
When all this is said we would very much like to have been informed directly that someone questions the ID of one of our items.
Kindly regards
Danish Retro Design
Bitten & Jette
-
Thank you for your feedback, we always welcome sellers needing advice on their glass. We do try not to offend when we comment on sales but believe our activities are beneficial to the whole marketplace by the dissemination of our combined knowledge. Many of our membership are published glass researchers and they cooperate here to the best of their abilities.
The board is moderated to avoid excessive accusations and if you feel any unfair remarks are being made then we will happily amend to keep things on a fair basis.
-
Dear Frank
We appreciate your reply.
We don't feel offended by anyone questioning our knowledge. But in the name of fairness we suggest that if any sellers are questioned the sellers are informed directly.
We will act anytime on any questioning and this is impossible if we don't know about it.
We only know about this discussion because we are linked to from this board - and we have dubbled back to this board from our web-site statistics. That means by sheer chance.
Kindly regards
Danish Retro Design
Bitten & Jette
-
If I don't post the question on this board first, how am I to know if the seller is wrong? :)
There wouldn't be much point informing the seller of something that no one is certian about to begin with.
I hope I didn't cause offence as it was not intended.
-
Not quite :)
I have been in that situation often and I usually told the person I was going to discuss it in public with a link here. Always had a positive outcome.
-
OK, I'll do that in future. :)
-
I think this is the previous topic
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2543.msg20136.html#msg20136
-
Can anyone remember the name of the Ikea bowl? They've ceased production of it and so it no longer appears in their catalogues.
As a quick sidenote, Elme Glasbruk used to design and produce glass for Ikea in the late 1950s. I don't know if that's been brought up elsewhere. I've got an old catalogue page pottering about somewhere on my HD if anyone's interested in it as a new topic, maybe?
-
Yes please, catalogue will be out of copyright.
-
It was something like 'snitz' or 'snitso' (sp?) but can't quite remember, so I'll see if I can trace the posting where I mentioned it... It was in their catalogue a couple of years back I think.
-
I found the 2006 catalogue (ma)lingering in a pile of other bits, and it doesn't pop up in that - so it's been out of circulation since 2005, it seems.
The name kind of rings a bell, though.