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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Resolved Paperweight Queries => Topic started by: Max on April 12, 2005, 07:09:33 AM

Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Max on April 12, 2005, 07:09:33 AM
Browsing through the Cancer Research shop about 10 days ago, I came across a paperweight.   Of course, I picked it up and had a good look - it was quite unusual!  As I examined it, I realised it was, in fact, rather nasty, and had bits of 'fruit' attached to wire (WIRE??!!!  How vile!) actually in the glass.  All this 'fruit' was sitting on a rather nice latticinio white basket within the glass - what a waste of a nice bit of lattice I thought!

I hastily put down the vile paperweight with the strange wired fruit, and thought I wouldn't waste £1.50 on it.

Imagine my chagrin when in my new paperweight book I find it was a St Louis lampwork paperweight dating from c1850.   :cry:  :cry:
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Leni on April 12, 2005, 08:16:08 AM
MAX!!!!  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :x  :x  :x

I really wish you hadn't told us that!   :(  :roll:

Why do I never see those paperweights in my local charity shops?  I'm gonna have to move nearer to Max!   :roll:  :wink:

Leni
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Max on April 12, 2005, 08:24:29 AM
Quote
Why do I never see those paperweights in my local charity shops? I'm gonna have to move nearer to Max!  


I shot back to the shop this morning - of course, it was gone.  Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!   :cry:  :cry:

Was it...er...terribly valuable?  I'm not sure if I should ask that...do I want to know really??   :cry:

I'm not sure why I'm laughing..maybe it's hysteria...  :lol:
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Bernard C on April 12, 2005, 08:33:25 AM
Max — you are not alone.   I've done it at least three times this year so far, walking past a Victorian four-ball ink, a delicious pair of turn-of-the-century tall Venetian sticks, and, by far the worst, a lovely Walsh triple epergne in Primrose, with fabulous flowing Nouveau metalwork!

I still can't believe that last one.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: glasswizard on April 12, 2005, 09:40:50 AM
Oh Max!! We all have tales of ones that got away and if I kicked myself for everyone I probably couldn't sit down for a week. The opposite side of this coin would be one you received as a gift but in all honesty do not care for, does not "fit" into the collection and yet you feel you really should keep it and display it. The following piece, and I will not comment on it but let you decide whether you like it or not. Impressed in the bottom it reads, Magic of Glass 1986 Jim Davis.

http://tinypic.com/4g13l5

Terry
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Max on April 12, 2005, 09:57:45 AM
Well, I feel a bit better if Bernard's missed things before.  8)  :D

With regard to Terrys paperweight (I resisted the temptation to Google Jim Davis!), I have to say I like his better than the St Louis lampwork one (those fruits looked PLASTIC man!), but I'm not terribly keen on either really.   :?


I think I must be a paperweight philistine.  :(   There's no hope for me!!!  :oops:
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Frank on April 12, 2005, 10:19:34 AM
Being a St Louis c1850 weight does not make it any better. Crap is crap, that someone might want to pay a lot of money for crap because it is old is much more of a Philistine attitude. Look at Monart glass, Leerdam glass or Dresser's Clutha for common examples of crap that sells for big money - just because a small number of the pieces by the same makers are without doubt amongst the most amazing glass ever produced. Changing the history of design as with both Dresser and Leerdam does not neccesarily mean that everything with their label/signature is automatically good.
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Leni on April 12, 2005, 10:38:01 AM
Quote from: "Frank"
Being a St Louis c1850 weight does not make it any better. Crap is crap, that someone might want to pay a lot of money for crap because it is old is much more of a Philistine attitude.

Agreed, 100% Frank!  :lol:

I would much rather spend my money on a beautiful Willie Manson, John Deacons or Allan Scott weight (to name just a few 'local heroes'  :wink: ) than a horrible antique St Louis, 'just because'  :shock:

Stop fretting about it, Max  :D  IMHO the only thing to regret is that you didn't buy it cheap and sell it dear and use the profit to buy something more beautiful!   :roll:  

Leni
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: RAY on April 12, 2005, 10:02:11 PM
them little china men made copys of all the french makers, it could of been one of them, thus why it looked nasty
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: KevinH on April 13, 2005, 11:11:44 AM
Hi folks,

Antique St Louis fruit weights do not have wire inside. And neither do modern St Louis examples. In the US, New England and Boston & Sandwich also made fruit weights over lace but they did not have wire either.

As far as I know, Murano examples also don't use wire. But perhaps some of the modern Chinese ones do?

Assuming it was wire in the weight, then I think that passing it by was not a problem. Although for a very low cost, it could have been an interesting example of its type.
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Max on April 13, 2005, 11:24:47 AM
Quote
Antique St Louis fruit weights do not have wire inside


Hi KevH  

Oh dear...I'm such a paperweight novice perhaps it wasn't wire at all!    :shock:

Pat Reilly's book 'Paperweights' page 41, has exactly the St Louis 'fruit basket' weight I saw...have I been silly? :oops:
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: KevinH on April 13, 2005, 01:58:52 PM
Hi Max,

Don't worry about it. You have not been silly. Well ... not in the sense of knowing or not knowing what the weight was.

Now that I think about it, I can undertsand why you thought there were wire stems. One of the features of many antique fruit (and vegeatble and upright flower) weights is unwanted air bubbles in various places. If the cherry stems, being very thin, have air bubbles trapped along the length then they could easily "shine" like a piece wire.

For interest, as well as the weight shown in Pat Reilly's book (which, by the way, I really should put in a word for at every opportunity - since Pat was one of the founding members of the PCC [formerly CPC] ), there are a few others shown at:
http://www.kevh.clara.net/exhib99/Antique/French/StLouis/SLList1.htm

And an American equivalent is shown at:
http://www.kevh.clara.net/exhib99/Antique/American/AmericanList.htm

Personally, I think too many of the antique fruit (etc) weights have too many stray bubbles. But then I am a bit fussy when being asked to pay good money for something I do not normally collect.

But, I can hear you wondering ... what about the other "being silly" part ... was it worth a lot ... should you have taken it regardless? Well ... err ... yeah ... it sounds as if it could have been one of those occasions that don't crop up very often (or at least, they seem to crop up only for people I know - such as another reader of this message board :) - but not for me personally).

In a couple of paperweight dealer sites, broadly similar antique St Louis items are currently offered with asking prices of ... £950 and £990  :!:

But quality is all important - air bubbles and "wire-like" stems, not to mention the the possibilty of an off-centred setting or poor latticinio work, or even reduction in size and profile from removal of scratches and bruises, can reduce the price dramatically.

But, hey, without actually handling and confirming the weight, it could still have been a Chinese version looking very much like the one in the book, so maybe it was not really bad news? hmm? maybe?
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Max on April 13, 2005, 03:52:02 PM
KevH

Thanks for your kind words about the 'wire' to save my blushes, you're very sweet, and they're emblazoned on my memory now...in case there's ever a 'next time'....

The wretched thing was absolutely identical to the one in Pat's book - I recognised it instantly - with a horrid 'stomach in mouth' sensation.   :(   I don't recall seeing any blemishes either.

I just wish I could stop thinking about the blooming thing now!  It's going to haunt me forever!

 :shock:  :evil:  :evil:  :shock:  :shock:  :cry:
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2005, 04:36:14 PM
Max

There is this mother of 3 living in a bedsit waiting for the baliffs to evict her and the social services to put her children into foster care. Her own parents have since long gone and she was an only child...so no family to help her... The few friends she had have moved away and it feels to her like the sky is pressing down and the ground about to open up and bury her.
She popped out earlier begging the children to be quiet and not to open the door to anyone...they cried when she left as they thought they would not see her again...its surprising what children pick up on..... Anyway she called into the charity shop hoping to find some shoes for the eldest child, the other 2 were ok for the moment as they were wearing the hand me downs... and thats when she noticed it...one of those old French paperweights that her grandfather used to own .... She couldn't stop the tears filling up in her eyes...it seems as though prayers could be answered after all.
Fate has a strange way sometimes of sharing the fortunes it has where the need is sometimes greater. :)  :)


Gareth
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Max on April 13, 2005, 07:47:04 PM
Gareth, you ARE a philosopher...   :D

That actually helped.  Having a bit of a heavy time here at the moment...I was letting it get out of proportion.

Max xx
Title: The One That Got Away
Post by: Anonymous on April 14, 2005, 09:18:19 AM
Hi Max


 :) That's good, and I do hope it has helped, and that you are able you to see the situation from a wider viewpoint.
 I too have felt the gut-wrenching reaction you spoke of and if you allow it space and to dwell on it it is really quite destructive in the amount of agitation that results.
 I'm not suggesting that you need feel the same as we all react differently but in retrospect I have at times ended up quite ashamed of allowing myself to be so annoyingly devoured by what I considered in me was a mixture of greed and stupidity.....not quite sure which one offended me the most...but probably the "stupid" bit. :oops:  
Anyway...whatever else you forget or remember I doubt you will get a more clearly defined image in your mind of what a Clichy basket weight looks like than from this.

Regards


gareth