Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: ardy on January 20, 2010, 11:28:30 PM
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Hi All
I have noticed that there are a large number of well made vases coming onto the Australian Ebay and there is often something not quite right about them. This is an example which could be genuine, but has me thinking mainly due to the top of the vase - 160396737801 what do you think?
There was a remark here a few days ago about items coming out of Poland and I wondered what the quality of these items is like.
Basically who is making the best copies and where can you look for examples? Don't think this will fix my future mistakes, it will just make me feel twice as bad.
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Most of the things I've seen coming out of the different countries are not actually copies, but are vessels made in the spirit of Murano. The best Venetian-inspired glass, IMO, is from the USA. Glassmakers of the USA often emulate Venetian and Bohemian glass. Their wares bring excellent prices, so others must agree with my thoughts. I wish I could buy a lot more from the USA, but my wallet is too thin to buy the best.
In defense of China -- much of their work is excellent. Many of their animal figurines are very good. Some of their vases are well made and worthy of respect. For people who are buying to enjoy, I think the better Chinese pieces are very good buys.
I just thought of Japanese glass master Yoichi Ohira, who makes Murano glass. I don't think that any of us can deny that he is one of the greatest contemporary maestros. Probably most of us cannot afford his work. Should we call him Japanese or Muranese? It doesn't really matter, because his glass rises above such simple categorization. It would be good if all glass was considered this way. It would probably be terrible to be a glass master in China, only to have people scoff at your work because of the country.
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Hi Anita - had a look at some of Yoichi Ohira work and he is very creative in that odd modern Japanese style, still who wouldn't kill for a piece of that or a piece of Lino Tagliapietra?
I am a bit more interested in who is putting out the more accessible stuff to a collector like me. It seems to sell for around $US90 and generally has a higher starting price.
I understand that as a collector/dealer you need to be careful what you say and I don't want to know this to point the finger at anyone. I am just genuinely interested in who is making it, or is it just a large amount of Murano vases of similar style all coming onto the market at once?
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A lovely piece of glass. Although I think the age stated is a good 50 or so years out! I wouldn't bid for this piece at that starting price as i think that would be a bit over the real value of it. I generally tend to shy away from this green & amber combination as they never look right to me. Not saying that is not Murano it very well could be, but this colour combination has been copied for so long and by so many different countries/companies!
I purchased a piece of Hineri many years ago that was in the style of this colour, although the amber had a reddish/orange tint to it. The green was also a lot more darker than the geniune Murano pieces. I also had a feeling it may have been mould blown as well as the look seemed a little to even.
It could well be a good piece of Japanese glass, the rim tends to remind me of some pieces I have seen/owned over the years. But without a base shot I wouldn't like to make a definite opinion on it.
Why do people list something at that price and not include a base shot???!!! ::)
Also, here is a fine example of a green and amber piece by Barbini - 390145074421 - that will unfortunately get out of my price range at the moment. :cry:
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I looked at the vase in the auction, ardy, and didn't know who made it. It first struck me as a potential Czech piece, but I couldn't see the base well enough to say. The 1920s date is probably way off. This sommerso style didn't become popular in Murano until the 1950s (and later, of course). I usually avoid the layered sommersos because they are very difficult to attribute and the quality is hard to judge from pictures. Kane's thoughts about a Japanese origin are also a good possibility. Lefton Glass did a lot of Murano-style pieces, as did other companies.
When I first answered the question, I looked at the broader view of Murano-like glass. My more specific view about this vase is that it looks like an everyday layered sommerso with a rim that doesn't appeal to me. $100AU -- nope, no way.
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Why do people list something at that price and not include a base shot???!!! ::)
I generally find that they do so because the bottom shot will reveal more than they care to have revealed..... highly polished with no base wear, cloudy with an Asian influence.....
As far as the piece in question that started this thread..... IMHO If that piece is from the 20's, my next birthday will be my 1st !!
You can also look at this auction by the same seller which does show a base shot..... 160394889117, and if that one is 50's Murano, I was born yesterday.... The base also shows the marks from the TAGIANTI, a $100 word used to describe a $10 piece of Chinese glass..... ;D
I think that if one looks at several auctions and reads descriptions, one may form the strong opinion as I did, that the descriptions are potentially quite fictional.... A dead stockbrokers glass, a dead Sydney Surgeons glass, From the family of an expatriate English hotel executive in India during the 1930's & 40's..... Passed on from an English maternal ancestor that used to heat water over a solid fuel stove and from a Sydney Publican family..... and so on, and so forth....
Craig
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And similar glass handbags are for sale in every cheap gift shop here in the UK... Brand name Laguna I think
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After I wrote the last message, I thought about some vases that were made in Italy -- perhaps Murano -- for KB Imports. Many of the vases look somewhat like the one in the auction listed. Some are opalino; others are some sommerso color fade to clear. They look much like Fratelli Toso knock-offs -- perhaps they are FT on a very bad day. Anyone who has handled this glass considers it about the same Chinese because it is hurried and often careless with unsightly blemishes (open bubbles in unacceptable areas, opacities in the glass, poorly polished rims). I bought a couple of the KB vases and ended up giving them away.
I am not saying the vase in the auction is one of these, but it just reminded me of them.
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When I first answered the question, I looked at the broader view of Murano-like glass.
I think Japanese glass from the later 70's to 80's done some good imitation of Murano Glass. Now that they have come into there own, they are making some exceptional pieces. Those Ohira works are truly beautiful! I like to peruse alot of Japanese Art Glass and they are, now in my opinion, up there with the Murano makers in style, quality and originality. I am amazed at how many there scattered all over Japan, and I am hearing/learning of new ones all the time. Its very hard to keep! Maybe one day a book(s) will be put together to help people identify and also learn about some of these makers.
Chinese Glass will no doubt, be like this in the future when the skills and knowledge is passed down to the younger glass blowers over the following years to come.
I generally find that they do so because the bottom shot will reveal more than they care to have revealed..... highly polished with no base wear, cloudy with an Asian influence.....
Very true Craig. A few times I have emailed some sellers for pics of the base. And of course, the email was completely ignored. ::) Either because they knew they would be caught out or it could of simply been that they could not have been bothered to take one and send it (one good way to lose a sale if the piece is geniune).
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I have purchased a couple of perfume bottles for Alisons collection and they turned out to be brand new. Still they were well made and one of them had that Nason black/grey mottled effect. Sold that one and still have the other one.
When you compare them to the A. Seguso perfume spray we just bought it is still like night and day. But the problem is you don't get to handle them and this is what leads to most of my errors. What we need is a simulation of how they feel and look like in close up.
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I think Japanese glass from the later 70's to 80's done some good imitation of Murano Glass. Now that they have come into there own, they are making some exceptional pieces. Those Ohira works are truly beautiful! I like to peruse alot of Japanese Art Glass and they are, now in my opinion, up there with the Murano makers in style, quality and originality.
Ohira was born in Japan, but moved to Murano as a young man. His work is considered Muranese. When I was thinking of him, I thought of the contemporary Murano market in general. Many recent Murano pieces are nice, but I rarely find anything that has that wow factor. Ohira's work has the wow factor that the innovative glass of the 1850-60s had. I would love to own a room full of it, but my purse is too light for my tastes. :'(
Edited to add on the Pino Signoretto also has the wow factor. I couldn't leave Pino out!
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Interesting discussion. I'm pretty sure it's Chinese. To support my claim, I have to ask you look at my vase in this thread--and start apologizing all over again. Scroll down to the last picture. http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,30684.msg166695.html#msg166695
David
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David - I have taken the unprecedented step of moving all of my 'speculative' purchases out to one of the sheds, known as 'Rat Hollow'. That way I don't have to look at them too often.
I keep saying that I will put them onto ebay but I am too embarrassed to do that, don't know why as that is where they came from.
Having said all the above, Alison wants some additional vases for flowers (Although 3 cupboards are full of vases all ready) and as she is banned from using the Seguso ones I think we may pick up a couple of 'good' chinese versions at the right price of course.
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hi all, i try my best to buy things that were made in Italy hopefully the hole history wood be hard to match even if the quality is as good or better maybe thats why they all imitate the masters.
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Oddly enough, someone has actually bidded on this piece! Decided to watch it since it was listed and see if someone would bid. Still 4 days to go so will be interesting to see if someone else bids, although the check on the bidder says they only have 9 feedbacks.
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The ebay vase you've referenced reminds me of the Rainbow Glass (Made in Japan) item I posted in this thread (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,26644.msg146509.html#msg146509). Those colours are familiar as well.
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Very similar Cathy. Why would you sell those on ebay, they can hardly be that cheap to buy and most of these are selling for 60-90 dollars (US55-80)? They also come up every couple of weeks.
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Only to get some idea of what Japanese glass is out there, if labelled and the right price. Plus it's quite nice :) That's why I buy it, anyway.
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I am extremely impressed to see a collector of Japanese glass! I am actually kicking myself for selling of my Japanese pieces years ago before I moved to the UK. Especially seeing some of the prices they are fetching these days! :mrgreen: