Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: Sklounion on October 02, 2005, 03:44:25 PM
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Hi,
With due recognition of the views of certain members, with regard to commenting on live eBay auctions, I would however like to draw attention to auction number: 6565141456 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6565141456), for academic reasons.
What we see, is a large, frosted glass vase, press-moulded, with raised scenes of marine life. I have not held this, but the quality appears good, and the design is reminiscent of some Barolac designs. It might therefore be reasonable to assume this is a 1920's-30's piece.
Now compare that image with this one, a piece in my own collection;
http://tinypic.com/e7jcdl.jpg
It may not be absolutely obvious, but this image has been taken of the same section of decoration. What I can tell you is that the clear unfrosted vase has very clear mould lines. There is no doubt in my mind that these two vases came from the same mould.
The purpose of drawing these two vases to attention is to ask the question as to whether, the frosting of the glass reduces the prominence of the mould-lines?
If so, then the age of these vases may not be distinguishable, as naturally one might assume that the frosted one is early, the clear, late in the mould's life.
Given that I know the second to be of postcommunist Czech origin, it still carries its original LIBS "Glass from Bohemia" label (the former Libochovice glass-works, part of Sklo Union) is it possible to date the former? I can't tell you whether LIBS makes the same vase in frosted finish now.
Clearly, the return by so many Czech glass-works to resurrecting old designs, is bound to cause even the most expert, to have doubts.
Regards,
Marcus
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Marcus
Here's the vase I mentioned yesterday. It's not the same...but feels similar. The mould marks are very distinct and it has a lovely satin finish, with flower mouldings that are proud of the surface:
http://tinypic.com/e87i4x.jpg
http://tinypic.com/e87i3n.jpg
http://tinypic.com/e87i45.jpg
:D I'm not sure if this is any use to you...but it was worth a try! :D
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:D:D:D
Perhaps the frosted one was just finished off to a higher standard - either earlier or later, with the mould marks removed?
I'm not normally a fan of frosted glass, but I prefer the frosted one, and I think it's lovely! (maybe it's just that I like the marine scene!)
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I can see that any extra treatment or finishing that would involve re-heating could certainly reduce the prominence of mould lines - as it could effectively "fire polish" them. But my understanding of frosting is that it wouldn't involve re-heating.
As I understand it, the prominence of mould lines is more likely to be caused by the mould sections not fitting as tightly as they might. Thus a tiny seepage could be squeezed out between the sections/joints of the mould during pressing. This would (as I understand it) give a more prominent mould line. This can be taken to greater extremes where small "fins" of glass may actually seep out.
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Thanks to all of you for your input.
I flagged this up, because of the obvious link to a vase I have, but also because back-catalogue production and marketing, mean most folks will not have any idea as to how to determine new from old. Certainly Seigmar, and others, have raised serious questions about re-introduction of back-catalogue production on www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de for some time now.
regards,
Marcus
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Sorry?
Is this seller using your image or an image of your vase,and claiming barolac?
I did say in my original postings "Reminiscent of Barolac". The arena of Czech/Slovak glass is extremely fraught, who did what, when/ who stole moulds allegedly by British companies, why have they appeared/not appeared, is a minefield. Barolac, I used, as a term, not as an absolute id,
beacuse there are so many continuing areas, of contention.
regards,
Marcus
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I think the vase is Barolac - I'll scan the page from a catalogue later today and post it up. Have to get off to work now!
Jo
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Marcus
No, the seller just has a vase the same as mine, I probably didn't phrase my previous post very well. :)
http://tinypic.com/e8ub9l.jpg
http://tinypic.com/e8ubdg.jpg
Jo, I think Barolac did one similar to this, but with a wider top? I expect mine is just a vintage copy of it (has to be vintage, from a charity shop I would think). If you could scan a pic in, that would be really great, thank you. :D xx
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Here's the page from a 'Weil' New York catalogue for 'Barolac Sculpture Glass'. As you can see from the scan made by Bohemia Glass - so not the earlier Barolac.
http://tinypic.com/e8v0io.jpg
The vase came in the turned in and turned out type of top because I have the turned out one in opalescent glass.
Off to dinner now to celebrate my oldest daughters' 21st birthday now... the party's next Saturday. :roll: :roll: :roll: :shock:
Jo :D
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Here's the page from a 'Weil' New York catalogue for 'Barolac Sculpture Glass'. As you can see from the scan made by Bohemia Glass - so not the earlier Barolac.
http://tinypic.com/e8v0io.jpg
Jo :D
Heyyy Jo! Thanks so much for that, it was really, really kind of you to take the time scanning it in for me. xxxx {{{Jo}}}
I have Marcus to thank really, as I'd seen this vase in a charity shop and hadn't bought it. I thought it might be of use to him and dashed down to the shop and popped a note through their door on Sunday for them to keep it for me. Luckily it was still there when I went in to pick it up yesterday. :D
Now...if I can just work out how to repair little shiny spots in the satin finish it should be a presentable vase! :)
{{{Jo}}}
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A couple of observations. Ostensibly Barolac was made at Josef Inwald's plant at Dubi bei Teplice. That might explain why this vase came to be fabricated post-1990 at Libs. If Inwald's moulds remained with Sklo Union it is not inconceivable that they were dispersed amongst the four main plants which includes Libochovice.
If we take Weil's Bohemia catalogue, (Thanks Jo) Barolac was being used as a classification term, for sculptural vases from one of the Crystalex factories. Interestingly, vase 586, is an old design, pre-war, an example of which came up at a German auction house in 1998, and was NOT identified as a Barolac piece.
I went back to check what there is on the glass encyclopaedia web-site regarding Barolac and was immediately struck by this phrase:
"The name "Barolac" and the crossed J's trademark, together with most of the designs were contributed by Douglas Jenkins, son of John Jenkins, glass importers in England."
That does not necessarily follow at all. Given that Josef Inwald's registered trade-mark was crossed Js, indeed, is so well associated with Inwald's plant that the crossed Js were used for Sklo Union products from 1965-1978, and revived again in 1991 by Glavunion, again for products from the Teplice site, it is highly unlikely that Douglas Jenkins contributed the trademark. It is more likely to be coincidental that Inwald's mark happens to bear two Js, leading to confusion with John Jenkins.
Again, another question has to be asked why Douglas Jenkins is credited with most of the designs? Certainly, "The Loss of the Revenge", was based on a painting, not by Jenkins, and given the quality of some of the Czechoslovak glass designers of the period, capable of having designed stuff for Barolac, for example Hrosek, Zemek, Lorenz, Hlousek, is it really plausible that Jenkins is the author?
Regards,
Marcus
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Can images be restored so this thread can be archived. Not Tinypic please but here http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/index.php?cat=0