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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: mikenott on December 20, 2006, 10:35:56 PM

Title: Mystery Glass Figure=Turnvater Jahn by Riedel
Post by: mikenott on December 20, 2006, 10:35:56 PM
Dear All,

Having seen the skill and expertise available on this list, I was wondering if you experts would be prepared to tide away a few moments in the blur that is Christmas by helping me with my Christmas conundrum.....

About two years ago, I bought a glass figure of a stately looking slightly balding, long wavy haired and bearded gentleman, dressed in victorian dress, his jacket having a small cross type medal undeneath his coat lapel and with his arm resting on a wood stump. I bought him because I liked him and I have no intention of selling him. But I really, really  ;D would like to know who he is.

Does his cross and a tree stump imply a evangelist (there were two famous ones who toured England in the 1800's)? Is he an American general?

The figure has a flat square base, which is of unequal thickness requiring a purpose built wooden base into which the glass base only fits in one orientation.

I have put some photo links below. Any help appreciated and thanks for taking the time to at least read my posting.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q194/mikenott/IMG_1642.jpg (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q194/mikenott/IMG_1642.jpg)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q194/mikenott/IMG_1644.jpg (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q194/mikenott/IMG_1644.jpg)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q194/mikenott/IMG_1646.jpg (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q194/mikenott/IMG_1646.jpg)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q194/mikenott/IMG_1647.jpg (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q194/mikenott/IMG_1647.jpg)

Many thanks in anticipation,

Michael.


Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Max on December 20, 2006, 11:29:44 PM
Mike, welcome to this forum  :)  I've had a lot of fun with my husband, trying to figure out who your gentleman is.  Could you possibly give your location, and if you're able, the location you bought it in, if different?  It might help pin it down for you.  :)

Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Paul ADK on December 21, 2006, 03:01:19 AM
The figure may possibly be a representation of the Charles Spurgeon, but I am quite certain that Dwight L. Moody retained all his hair.  (My parents both graduated from Moody Bible Institute and as a child I remember seeing Moody's photograph on many occasions.) 
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: mikenott on December 21, 2006, 05:54:08 AM
I am in the UK and bought him in the UK. I would love him to be English glass, but he may have more USA silica in his veins???

Mould crispness is very good, frosting is excellent.

Michael.
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Ivo on December 21, 2006, 09:17:00 AM
he may be French, or Czech/ Austrian (Riedel) or Italian.... and could be tricky to ID. 

I've been trying to research this bearded fella and his matching lady:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-1408
and in spite of many many suggestions, am none the wiser.
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Leni on December 21, 2006, 09:41:19 AM
His jacket, with the buttonholes in the lapel, has a look of the American Civil War period to me.  I thought at first he might be Robert E Lee, but I don't think Lee's beard was ever that long!   ::)

Ooops! I mean the first fella, of course, no the one with the lady.  Sorry! 
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Max on December 21, 2006, 09:49:48 AM
I've been through countless historical figures, but the trouble is one bearded man looks much like another. I assume there's no markings to the underside of the glass figure?  I did think that an evangelical figure would have had a bible depicted somewhere?  Perhaps the V&A Museum might accept a photograph of your gentleman and give some advice?  Just a thought.  :-\

Maybe someone will be able to ID him for you here, I think he's great and I wouldn't sell him either.  :)

Postscript:  Leni, strangely I was wondering about James Garfield earlier, he was born in a log cabin...wondering about the tree stump... 
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Anne on December 21, 2006, 02:50:51 PM
I wonder if the cross on his coat breast may be the clue here... there are various awards and orders worn there, e.g. in the UK the Orders of the Garter and the Bath - but it's neither of those. Does anyone know of an honour which is a cross in that shape?
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Max on December 21, 2006, 03:37:23 PM
Great minds think alike Anne  ;)  I trawled through loads of 'medal cross' on Google, and unfortunately there's quite a few in that shape.  I then tried finding out which ones possible historical figures had, it's a mammoth task!  (almost said 'tusk' then..lol)

Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Sue C on December 21, 2006, 03:52:31 PM
How about Henry Dunant? founder of the red cross in 1859?
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Andy on December 21, 2006, 04:40:37 PM
Its got to be Santa Claus!

or maybe a glass maker himself? What date are we putting on the object? c1900?
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Ivo on December 21, 2006, 05:23:44 PM
How about Henry Dunant? founder of the red cross in 1859?

nope - any name that comes up can be checked on google images, and it is not Henri.
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: pamela on December 21, 2006, 06:51:28 PM
just asked Geiselberger about it - if he does not know who else  >:D
shall keep you informed about his reaction.
It's a high quality item and I would keep it as well, Max  ;D
my first thought nevertheless is Riedel - wait and see  ;)
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: mikenott on December 21, 2006, 07:57:53 PM
Gee guys, thanks for all the suggestions  :clap: :clap:

Just to answer a previous question - There are no marks on the figure. The base is square and plain - about 7mm thick.

Michael.

Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Sklounion on December 21, 2006, 10:28:16 PM
Thoughts on the shape of the medal.....
Royal Victorian Order???? Clothing suggests not military, nor a really high-ranking honour, and very high orders tended to collars, with lower echelons, pinning to the breast. Possibly religious, but again, hierarchy tended to collars.... see the various pages on papal honours.
regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: millarart on December 22, 2006, 01:30:46 AM
could this figure have been made by Moser,
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: pamela on December 22, 2006, 11:24:59 PM
Geiselberger has replied finally!
it is
Turnvater Jahn
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: pamela on December 22, 2006, 11:28:50 PM
I leave it up to you to google him  ;D
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Sid on December 23, 2006, 01:19:32 AM
Hello:

Have a look at the bottom picture on this web page - it matches the glass figure!

http://www.jahnweb.com/alfredo/papa_jahn/photos_other.html
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: David E on December 23, 2006, 07:06:24 AM
Good grief - right down to the tree stump! Well found Sid! :D
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Max on December 23, 2006, 09:02:13 AM
I think it's well done to Pamela and Geiselberger too!  I've never heard of Turnvater Jahn, and I confess I had visions of King Canute when I Googled him.  :)

This is a really top example of how this board works - people clubbing together to help.   :)   :)  Great sleuthing!


Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Frank on December 23, 2006, 11:14:36 AM
The medal being an Iron Cross he got in 1840. I must admit he does not look the typical gymnast.... how times have changed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Ludwig_Jahn
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Sid on December 23, 2006, 04:18:50 PM
Hello:

All kudos should go to Pamela and Siegmar, all I did was google Turnvater Jahn and poke through what came up!
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: mikenott on December 23, 2006, 07:28:36 PM
Well, I am absolutely amazed and blown away!! As my kids would say "The Glass Message Board done well good". I go away for a few hours and when I come back, not only has the figure been identified, it is confirmed by a photograph of the original statue from which my glass figure came from. And it is is IDENTICAL even down to the amount of square base showing above the stone base - absolutely fantastic. I will write down the details and keep them under the base of the figure so that he always has a name. Feel like he's come in from the cold after a few decades  :)

I have colleagues who work in Germany and I will ask them to try and get me a better photograph of the statue which I think is in Freyburg. If so, I will post it here.

I don't know Pamela (although I have watched her news item video) or Siegmar Geiselberger but Siegmar must have an encyclopeadic knowledge of glass to ahve popped that name out of the ether. Respect Siegmar 8) (sorry, been with three teenage kids too much!)

Tongue in cheek moment - would anyone hazard a guess at the manufacturer? Assume it would be German? Don't know much about other manufactuerer's than the British ones myself (Derbyshire, Greener, Davidson, Burtles etc.). If teh statue was erected in 1859 and with his frosted appearance, quality of moulding etc. I would put him somewher between 1859 and 1880.

Again, a big, big, big thank you to you all for sorting our my Christmas Conundrum before Christmas. Now, I know I have another bit of glass somewhere for Christmas Conundrum #2............

Michael.
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Sklounion on December 26, 2006, 11:02:31 AM
Hi,
This would appear to have been made by Riedel, Polaun @ 1878, and appears to have originally stood on a black, inscribed, pressed glass plinth. Height would be 23 coms on original plinth. Produced for the centenary of Jahn's birth.
Regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: mikenott on January 02, 2007, 04:58:32 PM
Marcus,

That is very useful, and also very, very specific! Do you have access to a photograph or something?

My figure has a black wooden base that could look like black glass in a photo......?

Thanks,

Michael
Title: Re: Christmas Conundrum - Mystery Glass Figure
Post by: Sklounion on January 03, 2007, 06:34:18 AM
Hi Michael,
The image is in an edition of Siegmar Geiselberger's excellent publication, "Pressglas Korrespondenz, which can be found here: http://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de
Your base is not like the original black pressed glass base, which has four recessed panels with raised lettering, on the vertical faces, and a recessed top surface to seat the statuette.
Regards,
Marcus