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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: janettekay on February 05, 2007, 03:55:38 PM

Title: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 05, 2007, 03:55:38 PM
Hi all,
I recently acquired at auction a collection of Perthshire PWs-(including 3 Christmas weights which I am having a hard time pricing)-and  I am keeping some and selling others...I do remember hearing somewhere that there was a book (or was it a website?) just on Perthshire editions and values. I am a bit out of my expertise here-as my collection is almost all American weights and only a few Perthshire....
Any help in finding research would be greatly appreciated...
janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: karelm on February 05, 2007, 04:44:42 PM
"The history of this company to 1975 is well documented in Selman, The Art of the Paperweight, Perthshire. 1983 Paperweight Press, California. ISBN 0 933756 05 4."

From Gary's (I think) website http://www.ysartglass.com/Otherglass/Perthshire.htm

Not sure if this helps you.  I am sure many of the more knowledgable members will give more info.
Kind regards

Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: KevinH on February 05, 2007, 05:24:29 PM
I don't think there is any publication that fully covers Perthshire Paperweights editions and values.

In any event, publicised values are normally only useful for general purposes as at the time they are published. Publication of an initial sale price may be more useful but a) most books don't give such details and b) the present value of an item can sometimes be lower than the original sale price.

Perhaps the best source of market values for resale purposes is eBay and dealer sites. But for specific weights, it may take a while before any of them come up for sale.

There's no easy solution. But if you were to show images of the weights a kind member of the Board may be able to check them out and advise.
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: Frank on February 05, 2007, 05:55:36 PM
From Gary's (I think) website

 :) That website does not really belong to anyone, it is a collaboration of a lot of collectors many of who prefer to remain anonymous. http://www.ysartglass.com/Contributors.htm

This one will have more PP info
http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=184&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=27
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 05, 2007, 08:52:19 PM
Thanks to you all !! I like that last site--saved it...
Yes- I know that any prices in books and sites are NOT auction prices--sometimes it is like two different worlds-"book value" vs real life auction value!!!

I may post some of the weights, as suggested, hoping for some better direction..I have certificates (therefore info) on 4 weights -1 other with a date cane-and 9 others that have nothing but the P .  So I assume those are the mass produced ones with lesser value......????

If I put photos in an album on yahoo--is that ok with you all......

janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: Anne on February 05, 2007, 09:49:12 PM
You could use our image server GlassGallery for image hosting instead Janette, it's free and the pics don't get lost as on many other hosts.  http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 06, 2007, 09:01:43 PM
Thanks Anne-I tried the host site last night--did not work-I will try again tonight.
janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: Anne on February 06, 2007, 09:17:02 PM
Janette if you have problems with it drop me an email and I'll help you out. There are size limits on the Gallery so you need to optimise your pics for size before you upload them.  If you get an error that the Gallery isn't there, just wait for a minute or so and try again. It just means the Gallery cannot connect to the database temporarily - it normally resets within a minute or two.
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: karelm on February 07, 2007, 09:53:40 AM
This may help you:
The complete guide to Perthshire Paperweights - Standard Reference 18 Pounds from http://www.sweetbriar.co.uk/books_new.htm
Also they have several Perthshire weights on sale  ;)
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 07, 2007, 07:36:55 PM
Again-thanks.
Anne-will try again tonight and will email if I have problems..

Quick question--one of my weights has pp77 handwritten on the label--I used to know what these numbers meant--totally forgot !!!  style??
janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: KevinH on February 07, 2007, 07:58:39 PM
PP77 is an attractive weight with three rings of millefiori, including six round groups of canes in one of the rings. It has a central "p" cane and six side facets and a top facet. Base is finished with a typical Perthshire star cut. It was made only in 1985.
(Info from the book mentioned by karelm.)

But please note that no values are given in the book. Also, it covers designs only up 1997. It is hoped that a new book will give the continuation of designs from 1997 to 2002 when the company closed.

Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 07, 2007, 08:26:22 PM
KevH
THANKS !!! That isthe one!! Really pretty...
 I have tried to get one of the Perthshire books at the libraries in my area--none have any of them!! Bummer...
I do have a few to ID--for sale and my collection--so I MAY just have to buy a book.... but I fear-without any kind of number or some other identifying info on weight-it may be difficult.
Of course I have been able to ID the 3 Christmas ones--and one "regular one" that has a certificate (pp79) and one that has date cane 1985 on Top (scattered canes -inc.4 picture canes-over latticini muslin canes).--I have 6 others with only P canes --small &  med size ..
Oh-one odd pw is labled made in Scotland and has s&k cane top center...
janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: KevinH on February 07, 2007, 08:34:22 PM
I suspect that the one with the "Made in Scotland" label and "s&k" cane (which is actually "stk" and stands for St Kilda) is from a range of weights made by a maker who wishes not to be mentioned on this board.
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 07, 2007, 08:51:57 PM
Thanks KevH--found out who....with some googling...
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 08, 2007, 01:20:49 AM
Oh-can anyone help me with more info on the 1985 one mentioned above-does it have a PP #  and is it a LE or open????
and still really would like to know exactly what the PP# means...
TIA
janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: KevinH on February 08, 2007, 01:53:50 AM
Janette, I am a bit confused.

You asked about more info for the 1985 one ... which I think is the one that I commented on as being a PP77. So yes, it does have a PP number. And the fact that it was only made in 1985 means it was a limited edition.

The PP number was simply the factory numbering system for annual limited edition and general weights (i.e. those produced across many years) and was allocated sequentially starting at PP1. There were other limited editions which were produced as an "Annual Collection" item, "Christmas" items and "Special Edition" pieces and these did not have a PP number. For the (annual) limted editons, total numbers made in each year could be from 250 to 400. For the other limted editions, numbers made were very variable with as few as 50 or as many as 1,000 being allocated, but often actual production was less than the allocated number.

Again, info is from The Complete Guide to Perthshire Paperweights - well worth purchasing.
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 08, 2007, 03:46:02 AM
KevH-thanks for the PP info--I really appreciate it...
No-do not be confused--the 1985 I spoke of in last post is not the P77-but a 2" one with can on top -it has scattered canes some with pictures over a muslin(cane) like ground--sorry for the confusion....
Obviously-the owner of the lots I purchased-acquired most or all of these weights in the 1980s...
janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: KevinH on February 08, 2007, 04:15:52 AM
Ok - I see the part you mentioned:
Quote
... date cane 1985 on Top (scattered canes -inc.4 picture canes-over latticini muslin canes
This sounds like a PP11 weight, which is also listed as a limited edition, but was made from 1969 to 1992, so it's not very limited! Also, it was made in several variations. For 1983 to 1990, it had an outer row of canes (which I think made it look a much neater weight than just the usual spaced cane design). Perhaps that is what yours looks like?
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: Frank on February 08, 2007, 09:37:56 AM
A lot of people do write a 1 to look like a 7, they then cross the 7 like a reversed and rotated 4 so that it is not confused with the 1.

Cataloguing PP weights for Scotland's Glass I experienced the same puzzles over their limited editions, but it was the date cane that changed and not overall design. Some PPnn editions varying in size from year to year.

The annual collections were designated A, B, C etc.

Often the designation seems the only way to distinguish the weights as they did not name the designs in their catalogues just gave each a description.
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: Angela B on February 08, 2007, 01:09:05 PM
The Glass Encyclopedia has a short page about Perthshire Paperweights at http://www.glassencyclopedia.com/Perthshireglass.html
it has links to some books on paperweights including two on Perthshire paperweights - compare prices.
Lucky you finding such nice items at an auction.
Angela
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 08, 2007, 02:26:21 PM
Thanks Kev,Frank and Angela.....

 Kev -Yes-my P11 (?) has an outer ring of 8 varied canes-inner ring of 4 picture canes and then center date cane...

Yes-Angela--nice lots I got--I did spend QUITE a bit (esp for Christmas lot)-but feel I can recoup some by selling the 3 Christmas weights now---and then do more research on the others--BUT-the more I look at the others--I fear I will want to keep more of them than I originally thought!!  And I really am trying to downsize-not upsize!!

I will try to do some photos tonight--realizing that I have made it difficult for you guys to help-with only my feeble descriptions....
Thanks again to all

janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: Wuff on February 10, 2007, 12:16:32 AM
PP11 will have 24 (if I counted correctly) small canes in the outer ring - and it's a "large" weight, i.e. 3 inches diameter.

Your description is fit better by PP47 - a small weight (about 2 inches) with 8 outer canes (with large gaps between them) and 4 picture canes surrounding the centre cane. If 1985 the lace ground wouldn't be white, but a very light amethyst.

The design was changed each year (mine of 1993 looks quite different) - so in this sense they were limited - but no numbers given in the "complete guide".

Before you announce this weight as PP47, however, you really should post a picture, as Perthsire has produced several weights with millefiori or picture canes over a lace ground.
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 10, 2007, 12:46:40 AM
WUff-you are absolutely correct !!  it is light amethyst and 2"..  I am trying to attach photo here (my server-till I figure out board's)....

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/jjjleber/album/576460762389014503

this photo is not optimal-but-just a quickie --I need to do photos tomorrow-I prefer natural light -)

I do so thank you for the correction....
and hoefully will be posting an album tomorrow with my unidentified Perthshires...

janette

Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: Wuff on February 10, 2007, 08:47:04 AM
yeah - that's it!  :D
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 10, 2007, 02:44:37 PM
If anyone can help with IDs on these 3 -it would be great....

1. top window  2  1/2" -center P cane purple ground
2.. 3" dark blue ground --center P cane
3.. 2"  very complex --purple ground -center cane so small not sure if P is there even with loop...or could it be another letter -or just design...?

These are 3 of the 7 I still cannot ID....

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/jjjleber/album/576460762389080409

I do thank you all....

janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: wrightoutlook on February 10, 2007, 02:54:03 PM
The only worthwhile book on Perthshire paperweights is "The Complete Guide To Perthshire Paperweights" by Colin and Debby Mahoney and Gary and Marge McClanahan.

Used copies are available on eBay often in the Glass Paperweights listings; sometimes in Books. Just type in Complete Guide To Perthshire Paperweights in the search engine.

A new updated edition is currently being prepared.
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: Frank on February 10, 2007, 08:38:13 PM
Nadine (Another of our regular visitors, has contributed a lot of PP weight images to Scotland's Glass, with very good images) some of these are going into the catalogue now and PP47 has just had eight more views added. 1997 is completely different!

http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.view_images&product_id=1310&image_id=416&Itemid=27

Hover over each thumbnail image to see the year of production.

Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 10, 2007, 10:00:00 PM

Frank.....
THANKS!! I am so excited--I have been working on this since you posted- and I think I have ID some weights...back soon to verify........I am very proud of myself...........
janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 10, 2007, 10:51:53 PM
Ok-how did I do....???? .
(see photos(link) above)
1. pp60  1985
2. pp1  1985
3.  pp63  1985

I have also ID'd 4 others --will post photos tomorrow to see if I am correct
pp53   pp3 pp75  pp61 
Is it ok if colors are not quite as shown ---were there variations in same year??
thanks
janette
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: Wuff on February 10, 2007, 11:13:00 PM
The only worthwhile book on Perthshire paperweights is "The Complete Guide To Perthshire Paperweights" by Colin and Debby Mahoney and Gary and Marge McClanahan.

Used copies are available on eBay often in the Glass Paperweights listings; sometimes in Books. Just type in Complete Guide To Perthshire Paperweights in the search engine.

I fully agree with the first statement - but I find books offered on ebay going rather expensive in most cases. Try http://www.alibris.com/ (http://www.alibris.com/) - it's a combined database of book shops (including many second hand shops), where you'll find a wide range from rather worn books to mint ones - with the corresponding wide range of prices. Since I have learned about Alibris, I haven't bought a single book on ebay and very few on Amazon.
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: KevinH on February 11, 2007, 12:17:42 AM
Well done, Janette. 3 out 3 correct ... at least as far as I can tell using the book!

As well as having variations within design number, yes, the colours (and the actual canes) differed as well. In some cases, the change of colours can easily convince people, visually, that it is not the design that it is supposed to be! This is particulalry true where there is a strong contrast between adjacent colours and that weight is compared to one of the same design but with subdued colouring.

------------------
For even more amazing visual surprises in paperweights, see my comments in this message:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,9305.0.html
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 11, 2007, 03:40:13 PM
As promised--I am attaching link for the other 4 weights I have hopefully ID'd.
If anyone can confirm-I would again appreciate it....
janette

please see notes--re: possible years--though I do feel they are 1985 

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/jjjleber/album/576460762389221059


1. pp53
2.pp 3
3.pp61
4. pp 75
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: KevinH on February 11, 2007, 06:00:33 PM
Tick, for all four, using the book.

I think you should really consider hanging on to all of your Perthshire Paperweights items as they will probably become more valuable over time now that they are no longer produced. But an even better reason is that it would be good fun to try to find examples of the variations, were they were made, for each design. Imagine the joy of a collection building up like that, and being able to explain it all to friends and family etc. ;D
Title: Re: Need Assistance Finding Perthshire Info and Value--Book? Site?
Post by: janettekay on February 11, 2007, 07:07:04 PM
Thanks Kevin---I really do feel proud of myself--and so grateful to all of you for getting me started in the right direction..
I will be getting the Complete Guide book-as soon as I can get a deal...(I assume new version is awhile off-yes?)

I already have 5   Perthshires in my collection--(and now researching them)-
-
possible PP58- 1995 except mine is all faceted (5+1) -is that possible?

PP227 --I think I have the cert. in attic....

PP 2  1988 

Pershire LE  1973-scramble --which I love and started me on my Perthshire interest...

and
a pink and yellow faceted piece-with a certificate that says it is a craftsman one-off piece-no date...no idea date--I got in 2003-can't find any info..

Re: keep them all --I would if I could-but really will HAVE to sell some
Will  be selling  3 Christmas weights-but have no prices yet (I know the crown is expensive)--and at least 4-6 others.....

But yes--I have some favorites--and will be looking for more of them-someday...


If you can assist me in any way with additional info besides replying here--please feel free to email me....as I do not wish to monopolize  the site.....

janette