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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => France => Topic started by: Natalia on November 16, 2017, 03:15:28 PM

Title: d'Avesn poissons vase - modern or old?
Post by: Natalia on November 16, 2017, 03:15:28 PM
Hello)) I'm new here and I need the advice of glass experts))
Recently I've bought a vase "Poissons" by Pierre d'Avesn. A friend of mine told me it was not from 1930th, that the vase was modern (I think he means the vase is from the 1970-80th). First the glass is 3-layered - colorless - colored- colorless. It is seen on the rim. Second the surface is not satinated. But the signature is well represented, in relief and seems to be authentic.
I'll take additional pics if needed. What do you think? Thank you)
Title: Re: d'Avesn poissons vase - modern or old?
Post by: Mosquito on November 16, 2017, 10:36:05 PM
Did your Friend give any reasons as to why they think the vase is more recent than the 1930s? Personally I can't see anything wrong with it. It's a well known model and stylistically is very art deco. I'm not aware of this vase having been reproduced later but then again I could be wrong (hence why I'm curious as to the reasons your friend thinks it might be later)...
Title: Re: d'Avesn poissons vase - modern or old?
Post by: Anne Tique on November 17, 2017, 03:30:43 AM
Would it be wrong to think that even if this model could have been reproduced later,  it wouldn't have this signature anyway?
Title: Re: d'Avesn poissons vase - modern or old?
Post by: Natalia on November 17, 2017, 11:43:00 AM
Thank you all for the answers!
The reason my friend believes this vase has been reproduced is that it has a few layers of glass. He sells opalescent glass as a dealer and assures me it could not be so. He's telling all d'Avesn, Sabino, Lalique, Verlys's pieces must be colored in glass mass. Actually I'm collecting colored multicouche glass such as Daum, Schneider, Paul Nicolas etc and for me a vase blown to a mold having 1-2-3 or more layers is not a fake or reproduction. But I'm not a specialist in Opalescent glass that's why I'm looking for the answers.
I have browsed a lot of auction's sites where this vase was presented or sold and everywhere it looks the same - with this glaze of colorless glass covering the inner turquoise layer.
I also wonder about the signature. Did d'Avesn repeat this signature at his late reproductions? Is there any catalogue or resonnee where all his pieces are attributed, dated and gathered?
Title: Re: d'Avesn poissons vase - modern or old?
Post by: Mosquito on November 17, 2017, 12:34:25 PM
Nothing  wrong with this being cased glass. While a lot of French moulded deco glass is coloured in the mass, certainly not all is. I'm not quite sure what your Friend is trying to say. Your d'Avesn vase is not opalescent but may be a form of opaline or a white formula derived from lighting glass (similar to Jobling's pearl for instance) and cased in green.

Furthermore, Lalique and Sabino certainly made cased opalescent glass. Several Lalique mould blown vases are often seen in clear-cased opalescent and I have a Sabino coquilles vase on my shelf here which has an opalescent core cased in light blue glass.  Likewise the Verlys vase 'Les Papillons' which is sitting on my desk in front of me as I write this has an opal core cased in clear...

Edited to add a pic of the rim of my Verlys vase showing the cased opal construction.

Vases in the same design as OP's but in different colours/ finishes can be seen here: http://artz.fr/articles/vases/zoom/Vase-P.D'AVESN_4535.jpg
Title: Re: d'Avesn poissons vase - modern or old?
Post by: Natalia on November 17, 2017, 07:59:31 PM
Dear Steven, thank you for such a detailed answer. The information given is very useful for me since I'm absolutely new to this kind of glass)) I forgot to attach the rim of my vase, it is a bit different of yours due to the different shape of the mould.
For d'Avesn vases and coupes, is it crucial to have his signature on them?
Title: Re: d'Avesn poissons vase - modern or old?
Post by: Anne Tique on November 19, 2017, 10:55:10 AM
I guess a signature always helps, no matter what it is but a piece can never be judged on just its signature. As far as i know later designs were not signed by d'Avesn, simply because he never worked in his own name again. Maybe I have missed something but I don't think there's a book on just his works/life.