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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: assaf on January 07, 2018, 11:18:44 AM

Title: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: assaf on January 07, 2018, 11:18:44 AM
Recently I saw on eBay some glass items that are described as Exbor items. However, the acid-etched mark on them is not the same to the mark i know - see attachment. The Exbor mark i know has no circle around it, and the Exbor logo itself is not the same and has some slight variations.
In addition, I have never seen the designs that this seller is selling.
Has anyone seen this mark before? are those legitimate Exbor items? i will not add the direct link, but with a quick search on Ebay you will surely find them.
thanks for any information.

Assaf

Mod: Image removed under copyright policy
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 07, 2018, 12:39:31 PM
If the photo you have added is taken from somebody's sale, it needs to be removed for copyright reasons and I will report it to a moderator.

It is perfectly ok to put in links,  :) that way there is no copyright problem.
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: assaf on January 07, 2018, 01:31:42 PM
Oops, didn't know the rules.  Thanks for clarifying the legal issue!!
Moderator, so please remove the picture.

The link to the item in question is here -   https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Exbor-Art-Glass-Vase-by-Pavel-Hlava/122893049371?hash=item1c9cff1e1b:g:rRwAAOSwldRaS~g4

Assaf
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 07, 2018, 01:46:32 PM
Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: Anne on January 07, 2018, 10:08:54 PM
We have one confirmed Exbor mark in our reference album here: http://www.yobunny.org.uk/glassgallery/displayimage.php?pos=-593 (http://www.yobunny.org.uk/glassgallery/displayimage.php?pos=-593) and Mark Hill shows the same mark as that one in his item here: https://markhillpublishing.com/product/a-1960s-scarce-pavel-hlava-for-exbor-monolith-vase/ (https://markhillpublishing.com/product/a-1960s-scarce-pavel-hlava-for-exbor-monolith-vase/) whilst the Great Glass ref site has an example with the circle round it that looks like the one you are querying, but that's marked as a paper label not an acid stamp: http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/markn-r.htm (http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/markn-r.htm) (it's under Nový Bor Group, Czechoslovakia (post-War).

There is an earlier topic on the board which discussed the possibility of copied items, and differing marks. It might not help much but it's a start... https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,54189.0.html (https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,54189.0.html)


Ahhhhh, I'm adding something else to this that I've just found, which might help with the mystery stamp...  as the vase in this listing carries that stamp, and the vase is accompanied by a flyer from a museum exhibition, and an article which appears to show the same vase shape in an issue of Collect It! magazine (which I may have - I'll look through my folder of back issues and check what it says and if it adds anything more): https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/282511388/MUSEUM_ITEM_EXBOR_BLUE_GREEN_CLEAR_CZECH_GLASS_SCULPTURAL_VASE_DESIGNED_BY_PAVEL_HLAVA_IN_1957_58.html
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: assaf on January 08, 2018, 07:35:03 AM
Anne, thanks for you detailed replay with all the links!

So to conclude what I can figure out so far, is that we find the etched Exbor mark with the circle around it only on items that are for sale on different web sites. We don't have any record of this stamp on any trusted or documented source.... (regarding the item on Bid-or-Buy  - the seller has indeed attached a picture of a flyer of a Hlava exhibition, but no proof that this specific design or this specific vase was indeed in this exhibition...).
All the items that are for sale with the circled etched-mark - all are somewhat 'special', uncommon, designs (see the light green color on the some of the links below. Never saw an exbor piece with this color). I don't recall any of those designs on trusted sources such as GCR, Mark Hill or Riche books or on Jindrich's site... please see other items from the same seller:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Exbor-Art-Glass-/122893069750?hash=item1c9cff6db6%3Ag%3AJGkAAOSwoVNaS~z0&nma=true&si=dwQ5m8rdl%252BfCXgYLBgFKVT0mYSg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Exbor-Art-Glass-Vase-/122893057501?hash=item1c9cff3ddd%3Ag%3AGIgAAOSwEZdaS~ov&nma=true&si=dwQ5m8rdl%252BfCXgYLBgFKVT0mYSg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Exbor-Art-Glass-Vase-/122893055975?hash=item1c9cff37e7%3Ag%3AqMMAAOSwHYpaS~mv&nma=true&si=dwQ5m8rdl%252BfCXgYLBgFKVT0mYSg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


So I must say I am still suspicious...

Please do add any more references about Exbor mark. Thanks allot once more!

Assaf
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: Anne on January 10, 2018, 02:58:56 AM
Hi again Assaf,  I've checked through the copy of Collect It! magazine that was referred to in the sale linked above, and the issue afterwards which is part 2 of the same article, and there is nothing about Exbor marks in either issue, so they aren't at all helpful, sorry.
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: assaf on January 10, 2018, 06:42:31 AM
Anne, thanks allot once again for you efforts.

Seems that we'll have to stay on the watch for this.

Best,

Asasf
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: mattschlan on January 29, 2018, 08:14:34 PM
Hi, i have something to add to this interesting thread in that i have a piece with the Exbor logo in a circle. It's a large fish with cut lenses on both sides, engraved fins/ tail and a cut mouth.

The quality is excellent in every respect... the body is beautifully shaped, the cut lenses are immaculate and the engraved lines are all of equal depth and perfectly placed.

Given that fakes/ repros are generally of inferior quality makes me think that the Exbor mark enclosed in a circle is indeed a genuine mark. Either that or there are some very skilled glass makers turning out exceptional copies.

Matt
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: bOBA on January 31, 2018, 06:12:15 PM
I have seen some clumsy Exbor acid mark fakes on ebay, put on by a seller from CZ. They are slightly fat and blurry, so easy to detect. The person seems to have made a stencil and found some acid, to increase the value of unmarked pieces. As bad, there is a murano website selling copies of Exbor battuto hedgehogs, signed by the "artist" making them. Perhaps he thinks they are a traditional murano product because the famous shop Pauly and Cie stocked high quality Czech imports, during the sixties and seventies, putting a Pauly and Cie label on them, but at the time, not disguising the imports, as many were signed. I have seen signed Drobnik and Cerny pieces with Pauly labels. However, these 2018 made, signed hedgehogs are too much!

Robert (bOBA)
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: assaf on February 01, 2018, 08:21:16 AM
A beautiful fish indeed, Matt! (Unfortunately, I don't have an Exbor fish yet.... :'( )
I never saw the Honzik Exbor fish together with the cut lenses, which also appear on the very rare Roubicek fish (there is a low-quality picture of it in 'Contemporary Art Glass' by Ray & Lee Grover).
Can you share when and where you found this fish?

Robert, thanks. just to confirm what you wrote about the Exbor hedgehogs - I just saw a current listing on eBay of a hedgehog with the Pauly&C. label - https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ART-GLASS-EXBOR-BATTUTO-HEDGEHOG-with-Pauly-Co-Label/173118893901?hash=item284eb0af4d:g:vWYAAOSw8d9U1rrK

Assaf
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: assaf on February 01, 2018, 09:36:48 AM
a better picture of the Roubicek fish with the cut lenses can also be seen in CGR 1969/11.

Assaf
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: mattschlan on February 01, 2018, 10:06:36 PM
Hi Assaf, the fish was an ebay purchase from a seller in Germany. I also have not seen any other Exbor fish with cut lenses.

I've found an old South African listing for a Honzik and Rozinek fish with the same acid stamp

https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/306693289/A_VERY_RARE_CULT_ITEM_EXBOR_FISH_GLASS_SCULPTURE_DESIGNED_BY_ROZINEK_AND_HONZIK_IN_THE_1960s.html

Matt
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: assaf on February 03, 2018, 01:45:55 PM
Thanks for this picture Matt, it is a very nice example, of the fish and the mark.
I still would love to find some explanation to the two different variation of the etched mark... Hope someday someone would be able to answer this...

Assaf
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: mattschlan on February 03, 2018, 05:54:19 PM
Factories do sometimes change their marks and labels from time to time, i assume that's all it is, but it would be nice to know what era each mark relates too.

Matt
Title: Re: Exbor replicas? or fakes??
Post by: obscurities on March 22, 2018, 04:30:48 PM
I apologize for the quality of these images, but they are from a while back. This is an Exbor vase I had at one point that I ended up selling. This piece had the original silk lined Exbor box with it, and was a period example of the vase by Pavel Hlava.  I also currently own two other examples of this vase with two different patterns in the glass. One is similar to this example, and the other has the "Galaxy" pattern.  Both of those examples have the mark without a circle also. This one also had what appeared to be the additional stamp as shown, with the H and P initials incorporated in the design.  I am also of the opinion that the two other vases I own are both early production examples of the vase.