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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: kane_u_pain on March 14, 2010, 05:08:45 AM

Title: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: kane_u_pain on March 14, 2010, 05:08:45 AM
8cm high & 10cm in diameter. Flavio Poli blue sommerso bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte. No label. Added here for reference.

Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Ivo on March 14, 2010, 07:22:14 AM
As in the other one, this is clear cased and it looks very much like a recent piece of Krosno - heavy, well made, polished rim...
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: TxSilver on March 14, 2010, 01:54:52 PM
Kane, if you are adding as a reference, please give the source of the attribution. It is a fairly simple piece of glass. Why do you feel it is Seguso VA?
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: TxSilver on March 15, 2010, 03:40:10 AM
I found a bowl that looks a lot like yours but in topaz. It has a Seguso VA label and is from 1960. The one in the auction catalog is 17 cm in diameter and very thick walled, but looks like it is not cased -- hard to tell from the picture because I can't see the lower portion.

Where did you buy your bowl, Kane. Since your bowl is added for reference, it would be good to know a little bit more about it and the attribution.
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: kane_u_pain on March 15, 2010, 05:53:44 AM
Purchased from design & arts. I had the option of 2 bowls. One with a label but damaged, or this one which was perfect. I decided on this one since the other SVdA pieces I have in this colour combo are near perfect.

I also have another SVdA bowl with the same dimensions in a deep purple (looks black) with gold foil that has the SVdA label. Age approx mid 50's. My glass generally sticks to a theme. I hope this helps some more. I do believe it is geniune example.
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: kane_u_pain on March 15, 2010, 08:22:04 AM
I also forgot to add tx. I am becoming more familiar with these Poli pieces and the range of colour that he done on these even amazes me. Some with labels and without. Also done in varying sizes. I hope this can help clarify.

From the definitions I have read in regards to cased or sommerso pieces. They seem to over lap! Which can be confusing.
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: TxSilver on March 15, 2010, 02:16:56 PM
Purchased from design & arts. I had the option of 2 bowls. One with a label but damaged, or this one which was perfect. I decided on this one since the other SVdA pieces I have in this colour combo are near perfect.

I wondered if it was Design&Arts. I always trust their attributions. Finding the same type bowl in a different color and with a label tells me your instincts were right. You bought a good piece. Thanks for the reference!
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: kane_u_pain on March 16, 2010, 08:11:10 AM
I know I probably should add more detail to my posts tx! Sometimes i just feel to rushed, especially at the moment.  >:(
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: ardy on March 17, 2010, 12:55:25 AM
Was Poli the absolute master of Sommerso? I have not seen anybody who does it better than him. Even A.Seguso seems to have learnt his Sommerso technique from Poli and several of his pieces are very similar to Poli.

Love the colour and the look of it Kane.
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Ivo on March 17, 2010, 07:16:05 AM
http://www.artofvenice.com/art/glossary.html
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: kane_u_pain on March 17, 2010, 10:20:42 AM
I think Poli is definitely a master in colour combination. With some pieces I have extreme trouble knowing whether it is one or two colours. He blends colour so well! I think the A.S sommerso pieces are definitely A.S. Good colour combination but you can tell the distinct layers.

I will be unwrapping (Xmas has come early  :chky:) a few other sommerso pieces which are of good quality this weekend. Pic time!  ;D And these are pieces i am unsure about!
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Ivo on March 17, 2010, 10:48:01 AM
By definition, Sommerso is two or more colours plus a clear casing.
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 17, 2010, 04:00:54 PM
I thought sommerso was one or more colours plus a clear casing and that the colours weren't blended, i.e., there is a distinct boundary as you would see when an object was submerged in water
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Ivo on March 17, 2010, 04:42:50 PM
One colour would be straightforward clear cased. For Sommerso you always need two or more, by definition.  You cannot "merge" colours by superimposing - either by dipping or by wrapping it around the core. In Sommerso you will always see at least two boundaries.
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 17, 2010, 04:53:56 PM
Is this not sommerso then? It only has green uranium and red, and the red is clearly submerged in the green
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Ivo on March 17, 2010, 07:52:25 PM
I have a huge Cenedese vase which is blue cased in Neodymium - you'd think that is sommerso. But technically speaking it is not. I noticed on the Artofvenice site that they have the definition right - but still will describe some pieces as Sommerso even if it only single cased. Maybe if they see this they will be so kind as to clear up the issue. It may well be a case of stretched definitions - and I'm not sure local glassmakers always follow the correct definition either.
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: TxSilver on March 18, 2010, 12:55:28 AM
Heiremans lumps sommerso and cased glass, as well as glass with inclusions, into a single chapter "Sommerso" in his book Murano Glass, Themes and Variations. He defines sommerso as glass made that has two or more layers made by dipping an object into glass (paraphrased). Thinking of the thinly cased vessels made by Martinuzzi, I have difficult stretching my definition of sommerso to include them. They don't look submerged to me. In fact, they barely look cased. Perhaps Heiremans included cased vessels in this chapter because it is a manner of the degree in thickness of the layers. He did not write of why he had lumped these vessels together.
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2011, 04:33:43 PM
On the sommerso issue - even the knowlegable sources seem to conflict. Marino Barovier states that it is several layers, but Venini says 'one or more'.

 :-\

Another two vases to add to the pile:
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: kane_u_pain on October 26, 2011, 09:07:32 AM
Nice pinkspoons...i should add my other colour combos of this shape by Poli to the mix to get the colours added. Beautiful pieces.
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: johnphilip on October 26, 2011, 03:52:20 PM
All these Italian glass terminologys get confusing , i think it rests upon whose book you read and when it was written . :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 26, 2011, 04:18:13 PM
Tell me about it! So many seem to describe much the same technique with only minor differences. It took me months to figure that a macchie decoration is just a subset of a fasce decoration. Or at least I think it is!  ;D
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: langhaugh on October 26, 2011, 06:38:10 PM
I like the Art of Venice definition. If sommerso covers one colour cased in clear, then the development and use of the term  "sommerso" really doesn't mean much. For example, is Landberg's dusk series for Orrefors properly called sommerso?

What's the opinion on this one, 7.75 cm wide and 9.5cm high? (Sorry for the hijack, Kane; just trying to clarify for myself.)

David
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 26, 2011, 06:46:48 PM
I don't know if 'sommerso' can be applied to ostensibly single casings if the outer casing is thick enough? I say 'ostensibly single' because I've a few pieces with incredibly thick outer casings that have been dipped in the clear glass bucket dozens of times to build it up, shown in a slight refraction between the many clear layers. In these kind of instances, perhaps, 'submerged' is quite apt a term for a vase with only two colours.

Even these small Poli vases show signs of more than one 'dipping' to get the thickness of the outer layer.

I don't know - just a thought.  :)
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 26, 2011, 06:48:38 PM
Love the colour of your green vase, but I'm not sure it's from the same series as these - my two vases, as well as a matching colourless bowl I've had, have all had flat polished bases and rims.
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: kane_u_pain on October 27, 2011, 08:34:24 AM
Not a problem langhaugh, although that bowl would sit well with the Poli pieces  ;D. Love the colour of it but I wouldn't consider that sommerso. I would expect to see distinct layer for it to be sommerso. For me, I would expect at least one colour that is at least deeply 'encased' in clear glass for it to be sommerso.

The definition of sommerso is definitely 'loose' and hopefully one day it can be clarified. I am more than happy for someone to consider a piece sommerso even if I don't think it is. I wouldn't correct them unless it was really needed.

I hope this makes sense...my brain is fried after today... ::)
Title: Re: Flavio Poli Blue Sommerso Bowl for Seguso Vetri d'Arte...
Post by: rocco on April 12, 2015, 01:56:20 PM
Update

According to Heiremans great book:

more likely designed by Mario Pinzoni than Flavio Poli.
Similar pieces (with spherical lids) are shown in the selective model list 1970.

Michael