Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Scandinavian Glass => Topic started by: Formgiva on November 02, 2005, 08:26:49 PM
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I have a query please on Krakka glass devised by Sven Palmqvist whilst at Orrefors, I believe the answer may lie in the book by Helmut Ricke and Lars Thor, Swedish Glass Factories: Production Catalogues, 1915-1960
Can some one who ownes this weighty thome please let me know some of the production dates for this technique...? I am particullary interested in the early codes. Many Thanks. :)
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Hi,
Perhaps a weighty tome is not needed? Ivo's glass fact file a-z lists the ranges of codes and dates for Kraka art glass.
Do you have specific code numbers that you need dates for?
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Hi Kev, I would like as much info on these production numbers as you feel willing to offer, specifcally though PU 449...thanks for the reply :)
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Swedish Glass Factories: Production Catalogues, 1915-1960 doesn't cover Kraka (just checked).
A better bet would be Orrefors, a Century of Swedish glassmaking.
It says that starting in 1960, kraka was brought into series production, and certain model numbers were produced in long series from 1960 to 1986, marked P or PU and the serial number. P449 isn't one specifically named. However 1963's output was numbered 444 - 450, so I'd guess from this period.
However, if you're talking about a very early piece signed Orrefors Sweden P440 Sven Palmqvist (probably just clear and white honeycomb with no bubbles) but no "Kraka" then this is a different story.
Any chance you could post a pic, or e'mail to me and I'll post (e'mail on memberlist).
taylog1
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I have just bought a book taylog1 and saw a picture in there that imterested me, Scandinavian Ceramics and glass 1940's to 1980's by George Fischler and Barrett Gould, published by Schiffer. PAGE # 136. This book is readily available on ebay $38 ish and in it is a picture for copy write reasons I cant post here, but if you mail me (I checked your profile...) I will gladly forward it on to u if you dont have the book I am refering to. You last reply confused me a bit as I am struggling to invisage white in clear with no blue as Kraka, can u post a pic? Thanks for the reply :)
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I've seen the book, but don't have it - any good ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7481&item=6562677970
There's another book (only in German) by Helmut Ricke (Swedish Glass I think - posting from work so I can't check to be certain) - it's got a picture of a v similar bowl (same signature) and describes it as prototype Kraka.
taylog1
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Hi, no the book is not all that...but it was cheap! it has 75% ceramics, pictures mostly more than biog's or factory info, I wouldn't bother with it to be honest. Thanks for the pic of the bowl, that is interesting, I do recall seeing a shallow bowl/dish once like that, I do like a bit od blue in my glass if I can get it though...lol. Thanks for all your help though. :)
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Is it similar to these pieces ?
Kraka 446
(http://tinypic.com/favc6o.jpg)
Kraka 460
(http://tinypic.com/favcix.jpg)
not mine, just bits I've seen.
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yes it is exactly that style (not shape) ...I now realise this was an early form of the technique...very big thank you
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Delicious :P what is the technique used?
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Frank,
I would assume that as it's signed kraka it's the same, ie colour cased on clear, cooled, then a pattern sandblasted through to the clear again, reheated and cased in clear - Kraka refers to a net like pattern I understand.
taylog1
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Seems a bit regular for that graal-like approach and some of those bubbles look to follow the pattern. I would have expected a dip mould approach but with horizontal lines not so easy.
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As i understand it a fine mesh is used in which air is blown through, this creates the regular net pattern, Sven Palmqvist clevery named the technique Kraka after a queen of norse mythology called Aslaug (later Kraka) wore a net shirt in one of the more famous tales.
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I guess with a thick enough net it becomes more like cameo, sand blast out the blue pattern and then heat and case.
Gareth
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Gareth, that is Graal. I dont think these pieces are Graal.
Formgiva, that sounds plausible did you have a source?
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Frank,
If you check out Ivo's book under Graal you'll see that Kraka is given as one use of the graal technique.
"Orrefors A Century of Swedish Glassmaking" has this description of where Kraka comes from - it also says that the first 19 pieces were marked Graal before the name was changed with the centenary anniversary of the swedish society of crafts and design in 1945.
taylog1
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Hi Frank, no official source I can quote from sorry, it just something I have picked up. I have owned a number of the later pieces and curious by nature always ask for a bit of background, I had my unbacked up computer crash a couple of months ago, lost everything including emails and photos <weep> so no definitive source sorry...but the very fine mesh used in the technique is definite..maybe!
As an aside the actual process of making glass has somehow eluded me, I am afraid I buy it because I like the look of it, but like a lot of 'things' in my life have no idea how it is created or what each component does. The closest I have come to understanding a tiny bit about the glass making process was a series of pictures of Astrid Gate
http://web.telia.com/~u45608536/gate.html
I would really appreciated any links to info on glassmaking especially the scandinavian hand blown output, that anyone can offer, as I think it is about time I learn't a bit more... :wink:
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Guuh, so now we have two different methods...
...Ivo come tell where your info came from.
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I seem to remember that my tech info leaned on the Ricke book and production catalogues but I have used other sources as well - notably Orrefors documentation.
Graal is the general term for glass which was made in two stages. First the core with a colour layer was cooled, the successive operation introduced a pattern into the colour layer by cold working, either with sand/ grit blasting, or by cut-to-clear. The cooled piece was then reheated, covered in clear glass, blown out and finished as usual. This explains why you can have "U" codes (=finished at the oven) on some Kraka glas, in stead of the "S" code you'd expect.
Now Kraka is one form of Graal whereby the colour core was broken open in a fishnet pattern. It is not the technique which uses an asbestos ready made net around a hot core, like Harrtil glass or Merletto - these techniques are not to be confused.
The Graal technique was specific for Orrefors, I do not believe anyone else used quite the same method.
Fishgraal, Slipgral (cut pattern), Ravenna (mosaic), Kraka (net-shape) and Ariel (entrapped air bubbles) are all variations on the same technical theme.
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Thank Ivo,
Proves me guilty of assumption :oops:
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And me too...(More guilty of sweeping statements) :oops:
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I would really appreciated any links to info on glassmaking especially the scandinavian hand blown output, that anyone can offer, as I think it is about time I learn't a bit more... :wink:
Formgiva, why not have a look at the Venini website? Not Scandi I know, but it does have the most amazing collection of videos to watch - showing how their different types of glass are made. If you are not on broadband these are a little heavy, so in that case ask for them on CD-ROM - they will send this to you free of charge - again the link for this is on the website. http://www.venini.com
Hope this helps. :)
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i sent off for that CD last week...very excited, thank you for taking the time to reply...
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Formgiva,
for info PU 449 just popped up (40 min ago) for sale on:
http://potteryglass.com/autumn-preview.htm
$795
taylog1
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Hiya!
I'm lucky enough to have acquired a 12" tall, very dark blue Kraka vase. I have been reading this thread, and I've got Ivo's book out and have looked under Orrefors and Kraka, but still can't work out what the marks on my vase mean.
It's marked "Orrefors, Kraka Pu 322, Sven Palmquist". I've gathered that the P is Palmquist, the u is oven.
p81 of Ivo's book has the numbers; 278=1954, 329=1955...
Surely I've not managed to acquire one dating between these years???????? :o
I assume it would not have been made by Sven Palmquist himself, or actually signed by him, it's just the designer's name written on it, isn't it?
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/more%20glass/Kraka1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/more%20glass/Kraka3.jpg
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sequential numbering means the first one made in 1954 was # 278, the first one in 1955 was #329 - meaning yours dates from just before Christmas, 1954.
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:dance:
Wow. Please, pick me up off the floor.
I sort of thought that was what the numbers meant, I just couldn't quite believe it!
It has a small bruise, which was how I was able to afford it, but absolutely no other damage - not even tiny surface scratches.
It's fabulous and beautiful and I'm stunned to realise I actually own something as amazing as this.
Thanks very much indeed, Ivo. :-*
Can I assume, though, that it was neither made or signed by the man himself?
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Hi:
The number 322 struck a chord with me so I went off to look at my Kraka, which I found to be numbered 322 also. I went to Wickman and found that there are two series of numbers. The first are as Ivo described but with no P or PU. After 1960, Kraka was brought into production as a series, and they are marked P or PU with the three numbers indicating a particular model made in multiple copies. PU 322 is a vase. So I think yours is after 1960 but before 1986, the year Kraka was discontinued. Palmquist made neither group, and I don't believe he signed them.
I'm not sure which mine is as it seems to read "Nr 322,' or a very sloppy "Pu 322." I'll attach a photo.
PS My vase is 13" tall and a mid blue at the top.
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:spls:
Now I'm confuddled again!
Yours looks to me to read Nr, mine clearly reads Pu.
I'm simply curious about the date mine was made, later or earlier, I still love it and am absolutely delighted to own it. I really didn't think it would have been made or signed by Sven Palmquist, thanks for the confirmation. Scandinavian glass is not my main interest, but because of it's importance, I really wanted to have a good example of it. I do!
Ivo's "Fact file a-z" (p.81)
says production of Kraka was from 1944-1972 and lists numbers and corresponding years.
Then he says;
"Serial production of Kraka from 1952 bears the number 3.363, 3.365,
3.366 or 3.367."
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I'm pretty sure that your vase is post 1960. Like you, I don't think it makes a difference as it's a gorgeous piece. I could live with a bruise. In fact, my other Kraka piece has an internal fracture near the top, which lead to me getting it for $9.99. I still display it.
I took my information from a chapter by Ulrika Ruding, "Signatures techniques and designers," in Wickman, 'Orrefors.' Rereading Ruding, she says that production of unique pieces continued after 1960, at the same time as they were making multiples of some designs.
I also have 'Glas in Scweden' by Ricke, which Ivo quotes as a source of his information. However, it's in German, which I don't understand at all. However, it does seem to show the original series inscribed with an 'Nr' before the number. I couldn't usually afford this level of glass(you can take me out of Scotland but you can't take....). It was on an online auction with a ridiculously low starting bid. I put in a bid and was the only bidder.
Perhaps Ivo will drop by again and clarify for us.
David
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let me know exactly what you what you would like to know and I will try to help you.
IE the krakas are made as unique items with unique numbers as well in series, then with the same numbers, some of the reused numbers are 411,422,342,449, there are more.
Remember that the kraka production started 1944 and the last piece was made in the 80's. Therefor you will different signatures.
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Daniel:
Thanks for offering to help. The question, for me at least, is what are the markings on the unique examples? I assumed that if the numbers were preceded by "Nr" it would be unique, that is pre-1960. However, my Kraka is marked exactly the same as the example posted on p. 169 of 'Glas in Schweden," also an, "Nr 322." See my photograph on previous post. Just looked at my other Kraka, which marked "Nr 52 C," which makes it, as I figure it out, from 1946-8. As it has no bubbles, it must be pre-1947.
David
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No or Nr is/means the same thing.
YOu would expect all krakas to be signed something like this
ORRREFORS Kraka Nr/No/Pu/P 322 Sven Palmqvist
Those named Pu mostly seem to be from the series.
Your vase with the signature Nr 52 c is most likely not right. I dont think there was any letters ever used on the Krakas. POst a shoot and I might be able to tell.
Before Kraka got the name Kraka they went by the name Spetsgraal, which I have one of, its the 7th produced piece.
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Daniel:
Thanks for the picture of the Spetsgraal piece, which I've never seen before. It's a very lovely and obviously unusual piece. I thought the defining characteristic of Kraka was the net pattern, hence the name.
When I read the inscription on the attached picture of my piece, it looks more like "Nr 526". When I look directly at the vase, however, it looks far more like "Nr 52 C". The fact that there are no bubbles made me believe it might be Nr 52.
What you say about the numbering system is the same as how i would understand what Ruding in "Orrefors" writes. The question I still have is what is the difference between the series, P or PU, and the No/NR pieces? Is it simply when they were made or are the Nr pieces unique?
Thanks again for helping me out.
David
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:spls:
Lovely piece, unusual shape for a Kraka (I think) but it looks as if it reads "Nr 526" to me.
According to Nigel Benson (Glass of the '50s & '60s) p 20. The name Kraka comes
"...from a Nordic legend, in which a beautiful woman, Kraka, agrees to visit a Viking hero "neither dressed, nor undressed", and so she arrives draped in a fish net."
But I'm still confused as to what the numbers on the bottom of my vase mean, in terms of year of production!
I'll get an image, but it clearly reads;
Orrefors
Kraka Pu 322
Sven Palmquist
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Sue:
I'm pretty sure now that the number on my piece is 526, despite the absence of bubbles.
I think we're all pretty much agreed on your piece now. It was designed in 1954, but made 1960 or later. It's one of the most highly regarded Kraka pieces, being shown in Ricke's 'Glas in Schweden' among other books.
David
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I think we need Bill Geary to help . :thup:
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YOur very beautiful kraka is signed 526, and thats with out any doubt.
Its made 1972 and its signed by a man named Liss/Lis/Liz, I dont know the exact spelling since I have only been told his name.
The bubbles or the lack of bubbles imo doesnt mean a thing.
I would say that the PU pieces mainly if not always are series production. But as you will see nothing is consistant and things differ.
The Kraka name/origin is described above is correct.
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Daniel,
I've reattached pics of two trial kraka pieces for ref - signed 'Orrefors sweden P37 Sven Palmquist' and the other 'Orrefors sweden P40 Sven Palmquist'.
You can find another one and a description of them on page 168 of Glas in Schweden 1915 - 1960 ( Ricke and Gronert).
Gareth
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Great pieces Gareth, I thought you just collected Gordon.
Any chance of seeing the signatures?
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I'll collect anything !
Kosta Lindstrand, lots of colora, some Orrefors, lots of random other bits really -eclectic / pack rat
not brilliant, but will these do ?
Gareth
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Excellent, both have genuine signatures as well. Great pieces!
PS if you wanna part from one of them please let me know.
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Daniel:
Thanks for all the information, especially about the Liss/s/z and the bubbles. It's nice to know that not only me but also Orrefors are consistently inconsistent. I like the 526 but really like Nr 322.
David
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David:
Is the 526 cracked or is it an optic illusion. Looks like a cold-crack
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Daniel:
Yes, there is an internal crack, which explains why I was able to get it for $9.99. A mixed blessing.
David
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its a cold crack, meaning that it was cold down probably too fast. It got internal tension and then, most likely after a long time, cracked.
Still a good purchase at 9.9
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I've powdered mine's bottom and taken it's picture.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/krakamark.jpg
I also took a pic of a displaced bubble in it, in case it is of any interest. It does give it some individuality. :-*
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/krakabub.jpg
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Its a standard production piece. The bubbles doesnt always come in order.
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ps, here is another one I have. I like this color.
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I've got pics of the same piece signed both Nr 537 and P 537, which at least (possibly) confirms the connection between the two numbering systems
Gareth
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like I said, it really isnt consistant
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Daniel:
Gorgeous piece. I also like the colour. I'll have to start saving up, or at least stop buying cheaper pieces for a while.
David
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you cant have too much glass,.....When your house is full you could rent a storage room or two like I have.