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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: Ivo on October 25, 2005, 08:15:13 AM

Title: Floral enameled milk
Post by: Ivo on October 25, 2005, 08:15:13 AM

a milk glass vase with enamel decoration. The bottom has an unfinished (but neat) circular pontil and the decoration is of much higher quality than usual for Bohemian decorated milk glass. It is at 7"also much smaller than most. The milk glass itself has a fiery glow - what does that mean again?

Any chance that this piece is French or English in stead of Bohemian? Or perhaps it is mid century rather than late 19th?
Title: Floral enameled milk
Post by: Bernard C on October 25, 2005, 09:15:30 AM
Tricky, Ivo.   Hajdamach struggled to find a handful of attributable English examples, and it doesn't help when some were decorated outwith the glassworks, and the Bohemian? decorators moved around, not just within Birmingham/Stourbridge/Manchester/London, but from country to country.

You might try photographs to Simon Cottle and Roger Dodsworth, but don't be optimistic that you will get anything other than a stock response — probably along the lines of "possibly Richardson", or "Bohemian", whatever that means.

Date — Hajdamach dates them from about 1840.   His end dates of around 1860–70 are fine for specific examples, but much too early for the general style.

Yours looks an nice example with unworn decoration.    You don't see many like it.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Floral enameled milk
Post by: paradisetrader on October 26, 2005, 06:28:57 AM
The milk glass itself has a fiery glow - what does that mean again?

There is a type of glass called fireglow but this doesn't seem to fit !!!
Here's a descrption at Kovels
Fireglow glass is attributed to the Boston and Sandwich Glass Company. The light-tan-colored glass appears reddish brown when held to the light. Most fireglow has an acid finish and enamel decoration, although it was also made with a satin finish.

so a mystery there ..........
Title: Floral enameled milk
Post by: Ivo on October 26, 2005, 07:13:20 AM
[Grayhorse in another thread]:
In the US, there are 3 general types/formulations of milk glass.
       The original formulations of milk glass contained ? which caused a orange glow to show in glass when held to the light. You will see these pieces described as having "fire" and usually indicated milk glass made from the late 1800s to about the 1940s.
        Sometime around 1940-50, the milk glass formulation was changed and milk glass became more dense or a flat white with no fire.
        The last type of "milk glass" looks like skim milk - in that it is light and watery in color but with no fire. This is usually seen in cheaper milk glass produced in large quantities for the florist trade.

@Connie: Excellent information, thank you. So fire is present in anything between 1800 and 1940 - I think my little vase falls well within that period.

@Bernard: Thank you - I think Bohemian from Bohemia is the most probable answer after all

@Peter: I just ploughed through the Barlow & Kaiser book on B&S vol 1 and you're right: there is some fiery milk with fine floral decoration in there. I just think I need volume 3 or 4 to be certain  :roll: [/quote]
Title: Floral enameled milk
Post by: Adam on October 26, 2005, 10:50:41 AM
I am by no means a big expert on opal (milk?) glass, but I think I am right that the opals which show fire in thin section are fluoride opals.  Those which don't are probably phosphate opals.  Both have been used historically and, so far as I know, still are.  I was once told that the "fire" ones should, strictly, be called opal and the others should be called alabaster, but please don't hold me to that.

Readily-available domestic ovenware ones for comparison  are (or were a few years ago) Corning/Jobling "Pyrex" which were fluoride and Anchor Hocking and Arcopal which are/were phosphate.

Adam D.
Title: Floral enameled milk
Post by: Adam on October 26, 2005, 11:19:22 AM
Since that last posting, I've suddenly remembered that Davidson's "Ferlux" was a weak, watery-looking FLUORIDE opal.  As it was used for vehicle interior lighting, our customers would have been very cross if it had shown any "fire" at all!

Ferlux was a rather weird composition (and not nice to work with) but even so, perhaps everyone should take my ramblings above with a pinch of salt!!

Adam D.
Title: Floral enameled milk
Post by: Anonymous on October 26, 2005, 08:26:04 PM
My comments quoted by Ivo above were limited to American milk glass.  I don't know if the same holds true in other countries.  Also I am sure you could find some small studio glassmakers who still use the older formula but all the major milk glass producers Fenton, Westmoreland, Imperial etc.  glass is a thick dense white post late 1940s-50s.  In my experience.   8)