Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on September 17, 2012, 12:58:47 PM
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I've found Brian's article in the Czech/Bohemian section with his pair of vases so I'll do a link on that thread and here as well.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,48475.msg273260.html#msg273260
I believe this is one of the same set but a slightly different shape and a different decoration.
This vase measures 14" in height (35.5cm) and weighs 2 3/4lb or 1.2kg.
It dates to 1860 from what Brian has said.
The decoration is nearly immaculate with all the gilding still bright and shiny on both the pictures. The only wear is to the gilded bands. The base has some shiny patches where I think it was once polished but has now almost completely worn matt.
Apart from two French pieces (an opaline cake stand and a Clichy jug, both damaged)and a uranium opaline lustre which may be older I think this is my oldest piece ;D
m
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more close ups
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Well found ;D without that link I'd have said Richardsons or S&W's ;D ;D
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Me too ;D
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Thanks :) there are some differences between what is id'd as Richardson's in CH British Glass and this vase, now I've looked at them all quite closely. However, I thought I'd got the hang of distinguishing them until I came across the vase on page 100 plate 72 - I'd have thought that was Bohemian, but it's not...so obviously it isn't that easy :-\
I'm pretty sure this is part of the Harrach set that Brian has found in the books, but I suppose it might not be. It's rather risque I think ;) she is partly clad, he is obviously proud of his 6 pack ;D
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http://inmortalis.livejournal.com/14852.html
found this link whilst following up a link Baked Beans kindly gave on the 'gigantic ewer' thread.
It's different but in a similar vein.
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If 1860 not so risque, that was a later trend unfortunately.
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confused - do you mean you think mine is not part of that particular set and of that era? Or do you mean I'm viewing it as 'risque' when that wasn't intended?
It's exactly the same shape as the vases Brian shows on his site as far as I can see :-\
m
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UK at least the eras following 1860 saw the growth of sexual oppression in the UK at least. With more than one curator modifying ancient male statues with chisel and mallet. Not sure what happened in the rest of Europe but I doubt the attitude was not more widespread.
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Looks like Harrach to me. I just got back from a month in central Europe, where I just missed seeing a special exhibition of Harrach in Prague. However, they published an amazing book, From Neuwelt to the Whole World/300 Years of Harrach Glass, by Jan Mergl. There is a vase shown on pg. 180 that has what is apparently the same transfer of the woman pouring from a ewer, though in reverse (the caption describes it a a vestal virgin at a sacrificial alter). The style as executed by Harrach was at its height in the mid-1860s, so a decade or two after it peaked in England.
One thing I noticed while visiting museum after museum was the surprising amount of "risque"-looking art produced in the last few decades of the 19th C. Like Frank, I'd always thought that was a time of suppression of that sort of thing, but bare breasts abounded. Even in English glass there are examples, such as the Roman-themed cameo pieces of the Woodalls. I wonder if part of the attraction of the Greco-Roman revival was that it made acceptable the portrayal of nudity and semi-sexual themes in an era when they were otherwise suppressed.
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Kristi, thanks so for looking it up and replying. I've not got the book and was hoping someone with the book would be able to confirm.
I hope you had a wonderful time travelling - I admit I feel slightly envious :) By the time I get to any of the Museums I would love to go to, most glass will be identified and I wont have any surprises to discover on my own.
Thanks once again. I very much appreciate it. The book is on my hit list.
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yup, I think it looks like harrach as well. I got to spend 3 weeks in Cz this spring. it's awesome isn't it! I want to go back.
I can't reach my copy of the book (I am maine coon'd) but is this the one you're talking about Kristi?
http://www.thegildedcurio.com/item-513.html
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:-\ I don't see the similarity at all with that one Alisa.
My vase seems to be identical to the vase Brian Severn posted on his blog that I linked to except that the transfers are different.
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the decor of the woman in front of the braiser. not the glass.
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does yours have a transfer or is it hand painted? the ones I've seen have been hand painted.
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Mod: Link removed as content changed to inappropriate site
This is the one on Brian's blog. I think that is transfer decorated. Or am I wrong? My vase is identical in shape and coloration, just some of the gilded bands are a little worn. My picture I believe is transfer decorated with possibly hand gilding, but I think that is also done with a transfer - there is a type of transfer process described in C.Hajdamach's book that I believe these are done with. I think they are the same but just a different picture.
I've put some close ups of mine earlier in the thread.
m
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Sorry, just adding more to my reply directly above -
I am 100% sure mine is the same vase as Brian's and I'm also 99.99% sure mine is transfer done and I think his is also - possibly a process slightly differently applied to how I might think of as transfer, but I'm sure it is.
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yup, it is a transfer. learn something new every day. I never noticed these were transfers before. (I don't have one from the line you have). the ones I have with similar decoration (I collect hyalith) are hand painted in plain terracotta so I assumed all would be hand painted.
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deleted links. if anyone wants to see em they can PM me. :)
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(Written before the last 3, no 4! posts, but still applies, I think...)
Yep, my trip was awesome. Saw loads of glass. Made it to Passau, which was extraordinary.
It seems that most of these "Etruscan" style designs were done with transfer prints, or a combination of transfer and painting, regardless of manufacturer. Although the two images on Alissa's matching vases are slightly different, I'm betting that they are at least partly transfers.
The design shown in the book is apparently exactly the same as the one in the OP, just a mirror image. The vase it's on is very similar in coloring, too, though not quite the same shape. Unless the English and Bohemians shared transfers, I think it's safe to say this is Harrach.
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Ah, yes, those are what I was looking at! I thought we weren't supposed to post photos of books...has that changed? I haven't been around here much in the last couple years, obviously.
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according to the book the terracotta ones were all painted by franz hermann.
Passau was fantastic. I spent three days there although the last day was all spent frantically trying to figure out how to get a wire transfer. I never would have guessed that NO ONE takes credit cards just about. I never have cash. it was quite the eye opener. Did you make it to the old loetz villa and get some shards? ohhh, you make jewelry too.. I have a few pieces I'd love to have necklaces made of.. we need to talk about that if you're still doing it. :)
the book postings.. uh dunno. I almost never come in here. if that is a no no I can take em down!
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Kristi,thanks so much for finding this thread and drawing attention to it. Alisa thank you! It's wonderful to see them in print as well.
Kristi Richardson's did do some vases in a similar vein, I'm writing from memory, but I believe they are attributed to being 10 years earlier than the Harrach vases, and they are different. Hard to describe but you can see the differences in the C.Hajdamach book. But I also think they were done from transfers iirc. I'll take some time tomorrow to check my info in the book - it's waaay late here now :0
but thank you both very much.
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the books notes that the english had a lot of glass with this theme at the 1851 fair. Harrach only had the black and red glass at this point with classical figures painted by Herrmann. They say that it reflected harrach's desire to follow fashion in England (it's most important market at this point in time) but at the same time follow it's own path by creating a product that was slightly different than the english product. It says that the alabaster product also first appeared in the drawing books (harrach) in the mid 1850's. anyway long story short there were many more than one pattern book with this style glass. it was a staple at harrach for the english market for 15 or 20 years.
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Yep, Richardson's were often transfers too.
Alissa, did you read in the Mergl book on pg. 179 about transfer prints combined with painting? It talks about Pompeiian red being one of the common "contour" colors. So, if I understand it correctly, the outline/background is done with a transfer, and it's combined with hand-painted details. I don't know, though, I'd like to find out more about the process.
Did you see the Harrach exhibit at the Prague Museum of Decorative Arts that the book came out of? I would have loved to see it, but it had just ended. The pieces borrowed from Passau still hadn't made it back there. And yes, I'm still working with copper. In fact, I've always wanted to combine glass with metal.
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It's very common on china of the period, often with a brown or reddish outline, so there's no reason why it shouldn't be used on glass. Some (later) transfers are even found on both glass and china
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yeah, I've definitely seen transfer highlighted with additional painting before. usually gilt highlights. Here is an example (Alert now talking about my example not the lovely example that the OP has :) ) that has white highlight contour colors you can see it on the close up image. I do kind of think this is low end harrach after seeing lower end stuff at Passau. I asked Deb T about it and she said they did indeed do low end glass as did almost all the glass works. I had thought this probably wasn't Harrach because of the transfer.. but I guess that was par for course for them.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/745016-Guardianangelurn/Victorian-Urn-Lidded-glass-vase
I was in the group that went over with Deb Truitt and her sister Elizabeth so while we missed the prague exhibit we got to visit the depository at the UPM and saw the glass that was going to be in the exhibit. We were able to photograph in there for a few hours. We also got into the depository at Harrach. I am hoping for another chance to go back there. unfortunately we went right before the 300 year celebration for harrach so I didn't get to spend the time I wanted to with the glass.
I can't really afford to have jewelry made right at the moment but in the new year I'll send you an email and we can talk. I am thinking simple for most of these to highlight the glass above all else.
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Wow! That must have been an extraordinary trip! It would be awesome to go there with someone so knowledgable about glass.
(Sure, shoot me an email anytime. I'm pretty busy now, anyway. Simple is good, and cheaper! Sorry I've been spelling your name wrong.)
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I just thought I'd add dates here as I'm looking at Etruscan vases in CH British Glass 1800-1914 page 138.
There is an article photographed there that appeared in the ARt-Union Magazine in June 1847 and it has examples of white 'Etruscan' vases decorated by Mr Giller on blanks produced by Webb.
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Also adding the following for future reference and debate:
Charles Hajdamach British Glass 1800-1914 page 136 colour plate 13, there is a vase very similar to mine (the one on the far right of the 5 vases pictured) but in opaline glass that is polished rather than matt. I think this is also Harrach.
Also same plate vase second from left I think is as well. That has the same transfer picture on it as the picture on a different vase in Mervyn Gulliver's Victorian Decorative Glass British Designs 1850-1914 page 105. There are two vases pictured in this book one on page 104 and the other on page 105 and I think they are possibly both Harrach as well?
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I've just bought this - photo courtesy of seller with their approval
I'll add another pic when it arrives.
It's not the same design as my vase but I suspect it dates to the same period.
I'm not sure at all from whence it came as a similar but not the same greek key was used I think on a Harrach piece but then a similar loops with dots in them and the teardrops was used by Richardson.
It's not frosted as my Harrach vase is.
Measures 9.5" wide - I'm looking forward to seeing it :)
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just for future reference on this topic -
these vases date to 1849 and were produced by A.J.F. Christy Stangate Glass Works, Lambeth England.
They are in the Etruscan style but the decoration is hand painted rather than transfer printed.
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O1087/vase-a-j-f/
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HI M this may be of interest to you and more info for the forum ebay no 111037563579 , not mine .
a tad pricey methinks . jp
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:o yes just a tad (fortunately my plate was so far from that extreme otherwise it would not be residing with me ;D - mind you I haven't seen it yet so it may well not turn out to be what it seems )
Thanks JP :) it's nice to see the variation on the theme. That pair are different to the ones in the CH British Glass book in the transfers but the shapes are similar. Vases from that maker in particular seem to be very rare from what was written in the book.
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the seller of those also has this for sale
it has an up and down square border round the foot join that is similar to my plate but not the same.
I suspect this vase could be Bohemian and Harrach as well.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111037520501&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
According to the description, Dudley museums were unsure whether English or Bohemian.
It has the same up and down square border as a vase in CH British Glass 1800-1914 page 136 second from left which I thought might be Harrach
these in this link are all Richardson. The one on the left bears marked similarities to a vase in CH British Glass page 135 far left which is also id'd as Richardson
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_image.aspx?objectId=3331857&partId=1&searchText=opaline+glass&fromADBC=ad&toADBC=ad&orig=%2fresearch%2fsearch_the_collection_database.aspx&numPages=10¤tPage=1&asset_id=936096
this is a Richardson vase with a blue coloured background - the transfer print is identified as Richardson in CH British Glass 1800-1914 page 99 and 100
http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_ST29/
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Came across this looking for something else
A different kind of vase, overlay with cut to clear windows - id'd as Josephinenhutte c.1860 - it seems to be the same transfer as my Etruscan vase.
In the text it translates as
quote ' the sacrificial goddess Hecate, goddess with ivy wreath and shell as well as ancient warrior with spear and shield. ' so whilst it doesn't show the other side it seems it also has a warrior on the other side as mine does, and my warrior also has a spear and shield - that's a little confusing.
Were Josephinenhutte and Harrach copying each other?
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5746370
and it's no longer my oldest piece :)
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My Harrach book has arrived ... hurraaahhh.
the vase I linked to above sold in 2008 as Josephinenhutte, appears in the Harrach book 'From Neuwelt to the whole world' Jan Mergl on page 180 (English Version) as Prod.no 666 - so Harrach not Josephinenhutte :)
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This looks like another Harrach example to my eye, just over 25cm tall, the scenes are transfer rather than hand painted.
John