Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on October 08, 2012, 12:17:27 PM
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This ia a large vase or jardiniere measuring 7 1/2"tall (19cm) by 6 1/2" wide (16.5cm). Polished pontil mark, 4 applied clear glass plain feet and clear glass drip rim on turquoise glass body. The rim has 4 pulls on it made with a gadget, the drip rim drip are also pulled with a gadget. The rim thickness is 5mm and 6mm in places and it weighs nearly 2 1/2lb or 1.15Kg
The pontil mark is polished and the glass is seedy and has striations in it. The body bulges out into a quatrefoil shape.
The turquoise is slightly different to the one I have here
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46824.msg263656.html#msg263656
My searches and books do not contain any the same. So is it French or could it be Harrach?
m
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I had found one pulled rim four point vase here
id'd as August Jean - the way the rim is done is not quite the same but it's the most similar I found.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5158110
In the book Art of French Glass Janine Bloch Dermant page 27 it says '...And the material alone proved sufficient as an expressive means and no longer required decoration' from which I gather he no longer enamelled his vases and one is shown in the book, the Orchid vase. However, it also says his pieces are usually signed, in addition I've not found one with the plain and simple looking applied clear glass feet.
m
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Auguste Jean was on my suspect list - but it is going to be hard work to prove it with any degree of certainty. But at least unsigned pieces exist (Cappa, Génie Verrier p. 290) and the colour is a fair match (id. p. 288) - so good hunting.
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Thanks for looking Ivo
I started searching French because of the rim pull device of the upward four pulls, which seems to have been a design idea used by a few of the French houses. In Cappa page 200 there is a Clichy vase (1872-1874) with a green drip rim and applied clear feet - the feet look stubby, plain and quite straight, but the one visible at the back looks as though it might be longer and more curved, so perhaps they are damaged.
Different to the ones on my vase but they have some similarities in that they are quite thick, plain glass and the way they are applied to the body of the vase looks similar. It will probaby be impossibe to attribute firmly but I shall keep an eye out.
m
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Possibly I was also right to question Harrach.
I came across this looking for something else
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2089237
It is listed as Harrach but to me the way the frog is enamelled and applied looks very similar to the red vase I linked to above that has a lizard on. Does anyone know for sure whether they are Harrach or August Jean or whether the similarities are just coincidental and they are both properly identified?
Many thanks
m
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I see no substantiation of either attribution. Cappa may be questionable at times but at least it is recorded. Harrach is not - or not enough.
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Well perhaps this helps....
the new Jan Mergl book on Harrach has a number of quite similar style examples as does the U(P)M museum Harrach collection and the Harrach factory museum.
Annoying, although I have the book on order in English - I presently only have the czech version (rather hard to read) -but I've been told that -rather unusually - the book says that Harrach virtually deliberatly copied Auguste Jean. (Unusual in that usually other people copied them!)
cheers
M
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Thank you for looking Mike :)
When you say has similar examples, do you mean similar to my vase, in that they are plain with drip rims, or similar to the ones with the applied frog and lizard please?
I've found another applied frog Harrach id'd vase on Collectors weekly but to me that frog looks different to the Lizard and frog I've linked to in the above links - the enamelling doesn't have the similarities that the two above do to each other, and it is applied differently to the vase in that there are no 'pads' underneath the feet like there are on the two above. I suppose it could just be a different decorator of course but it doesn't have the same feel to me :-\ but of course I suppose it is likely there were differences in the individual pieces over the timeframe they were made and they could all be Harrach.
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/69943-harrach-hand-painted-enamel-and-applied-fr
I think I need to get the Harrach book - I am grateful that you both look in your books for me so thank you :)
m
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Actually -looking again there is a great variety in the Harrach pieces (looking across all my sources)-nothing quite the same as either piece -but generally many elements very similar to both -except and I know I've looked before -no examples of frogs.
Blues, pinks, amber and clear even green - lots of drippy bits and icicles, applied lizards even ducks.
With and without enamelling
cheers
M
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Thank you for looking Mike :)
The only way I can see to check them is by checking the enamelling on the various signed pieces against the unsigned ones. I've searched these for a long time and I see the same or similar pieces being attributed to Harrach, Moser, August Jean, Leveille etc with no real evidence to support the attributions... for example there is a vase I see that is variously attributed to three of the above makers but I actually think it is a Baccarat vase based on the colour and the enamelling and comparing to a piece in Cappa - I never see it id'd as Baccarat.
For my vase, I think without a signature it's going to be very difficult to find out exactly who made it. It makes it harder because it has no further applications (apart from the plain feet) and no enamelling to compare to signed pieces either, but I have found an undecorated version (see below).
With regards dating it I found a plain drip rim non decorated Leveille vase in the Musee D'Orsay collection - it's not the same and the only similarities are the drip rim and the use of clear and turquoise glass - it doesn't have a pulled rim, the drip is turquoise on a clear body, so the other way round to my vase, it's a rounded shape and the foot is a circular applied foot rather than individual feet.... but it dates apparently to 1875-1878, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume my vases dates to about that period I think.
link here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/unforth/4534431525/in/set-72157623772207779
Thanks again to you and Ivo for all your thoughts and help which is much appreciated :)
m
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Hi
earliest vaguely similar example in Harrach book is dated 1878
M
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thanks :) that would tie in with A Jean's showing at the 1878 Universal Exhibition maybe then?
btw - I've no idea why I typed it has 5 feet because it clearly has 4 - oops.
m
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Ivo,Mike I probably should keep my thoughts to myself lol, and this is a sidetrack from my vase a bit, but I found it curious that in neither Le Genie Verrier de L'Europe (Cappa)and in The Art of French Glass ( Bloch Dermant) are there pictures of Auguste Jean vases with animals actually applied to the glass as opposed to forming the feet.
I'd have thought in at least one of those volumes they would have included a piece with an applied animal on the body of the vase if he did make those (obviously , I know it depends on what material they had access to at the time of writing of course, but still).
In addition, I have found another vase with an applied lizard that looks to be by the same hand as the two I linked to (not the Collectors Weekly one) and is in a museum collection - but none of the three vases show any signature nor do they mention being signed.
Those vases, the two with the neat detailed and beautifully enamelled lizard and the one with the frog, which are applied to the body of the vase with pads under the feet have irked me. They are different I think to the one posted on Collectors Weekly as Harrach. So I've had another very good look around and found a vase in Victor Arwas that has an applied tortoise, very beautifully enamelled and with the round pads under the feet. It's difficult to tell because the picture shows quite small, but it looks to me very like the same hand - according to Arwas The Art of Glass Art Nouveau to Art Deco, this applied tortoise vase is by Philippe-Joseph Brocade - it has an amethyst drip rim.
So...I'm wondering if perhaps Auguste Jean did not make vases with animals applied to the body of the vase at all? or is it just that I cannot find a signed reference? Do you know of any?
Sorry, I know this is slightly off track ;D
m
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Google image gives quite an oversight of A.Jean glass and in every case it is glass drips, never applied animalitos - except here
http://www.symbiosis-arts.be/glass/index.php?page=3
and you might argue that IS a drip that looks like a lizzie.
Not sure who else made similar.
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And that is 'attributed to' not signed either.
m
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ok, so the tenuous link to my vase was the four way pulled rim and drips - one I've linked to and one I've found in a museum collection are id'd as Auguste Jean but with no reference or signature apparently, the other looks to be by the same hand but is id'd as Harrach, but again without reference or signature seemingly. All have applied animals. I wonder if they are not either Auguste Jean or Harrach but might in fact be by Philippe-Joseph Brocard (ref Victor Arwas - I assume the Arwas id is based on a signed piece?). I can't think my vase is by Brocard though. So my nearest possibles seem to be Leveille (ref the museum pieces above) or someone else...possibly Harrach, or Clichy (ref the clear plain applied feet and drip rim - see Cappa).
m
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I own one Jean piece whuch is not signed. But I would not attribute it with any certainty - there are too many questions surrounding this type of glass.
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Aah well - I don't mind. One day someone will unearth some vital catalogue or brochure and there it will be. I do absolutely love both my pieces, not least because they are so big and also unusual, but they also look quite fantastic under lighting with the drips etc. I would love just one leaning, drippy, enamelled signed Auguste Jean vase though, that would be perfect ;D
Thank you both for bearing with my mad ramblings and looking things up for me which is much appreciated.
m
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and thanks to the mod who amended my initial post that said it had 5 feet :)
m
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As there are quite literally dozens of variations of this general style in the Harrach Factory Museum alone, I strongly suspect the vast majority of unsigned ones are Harrach.
M
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I think you could be right - lots of them seem to have a Harrach type feel to them either in colour, shape or the way the rigaree is applied. I'm holding judgement on the ones with the pads under the feet though and the pulled rims . I want to try and see if I can match the enamelling on them to something marked.
Searching in French found me this signed one by Auguste Jean which is the plainest I could find as future reference, no enamel, and does not have an applied animal -
http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2007/20th-century-decorative-arts-pf7005/lot.11.lotnum.html
And this one which is the same blue, one colour only, no enamel and very plain.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Jean-Auguste-Jean-Signed-French-Art-Glass-Vase-/190683189308?category=992&nma=true&si=%2Fyr1e06o7xQ%2FrI%2BCMz5%2BRNv1MPU%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I don't think AJ is a possible for my vase judging by either of those, but neither have I found a Harrach vase with the quatrefoil bulbous shape and the applied plain clear feet at all.... yet.
m
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found the picture - it is unsigned and I have always been convinced it was Sèvres/Jean.
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I've been searching for that one on and off since you last posted it :)
I have a correction to make to my comments above about neither Le Genie Verrier de L'Europe nor The Art of French Glass showing pieces with applied animals id'd as Auguste Jean - I failed to notice in Cappa page 285 that there is a leaning, completely clear tall vase with spiky and drip rim and rigaree trails as feet and that it also has an applied Lizard on it in clear (with ref the signature it says in the book traces of enamel on base)
m
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290778032411?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
this one is unmarked. But it has the pads under the feet of the lizard and is attributed to Baccarat. Is the shape of the covered vase recognised as a Baccarat piece does any one know please?
m
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Mike, I've found a vase with an applied frog on it in Collectible Bohemian Glass 1880-1940 Truitts - page 64 under Harrach.Tri legged clear bowl with drip rim and gilded enamelled applied lizard, peaking out from the left hand side is an applied frog :)
m
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Well done
Truitt is probably the most reliable of such sources
I wonder if we will ever be able to disentangle all the French looking glass that is in fact Bohemian (and usually by Harrach) -or for that matter all the English looking glass that's bohemian (and usually by Harrach) too.
M
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Well I think it's possible bit by bit.
And actually that is a major part of the interest for me I suppose :)
I've spotted another in the Harrach book page 249 - not had time to double check but suspect it's the same bowl. You can just see a peak of green on the right handside of the photo and I believe that is a frog.
m
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Question regarding eBay blue vase on AJ since I really have not been able to gather much info on the artist. I've not run across that type of blob with an AJean drip signature done in glass...is this documented as something he used? I ask that because that blue piece seems to be (at least to me) to be rather poor in design & overall quality compared with what normally sees with an AJ signature. Any insight is appreciated.