Glass Message Board

Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: Andy on May 14, 2009, 12:28:49 PM

Title: 2.6kg bowl inch multi colour strands bubbles frit Czech? ID: Skrdlovice Palecek
Post by: Andy on May 14, 2009, 12:28:49 PM
Super bowl just delivered. I saw it on ebay as Murano, it very much reminded me of the plate on the cover of  Czech Glass 1945-1980 by Arnoldsche, so had a go for it , paid silly price less than a fiver!

Its just arrived, and its a super bowl, inch thick glass, weighhs 2.6k 6 1/2 Inches wide, 3 inches tall,
enclosed in the glass are multi colour strands of glass and at the top and bottom is a snowy icy effect, looks like glass frit and bubbles. (all inside , bowl totally smooth)
Polished base, loads of age wear, bit scratched, but a fantastic bowl :thup:

Id love opinions on this lovely thing, i wont make any mad guesses yet, but anyone else welcome to ;D
Origins ? Designer? I do think its got to be 50 years old.
Look forward to any comments,
Andy
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Andy on May 14, 2009, 03:02:31 PM
Hi Jindrich,
you seem to be having 'one of those days'  ;D

Cant help with attribution of the pieces above, but cheer yourself up and have a look at my new bowl!
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,26443.0.html

Your input on this board is extremely kind and helpful, and much appreciated  :thup:

Best wishes
Andy
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Jindra8526 on May 14, 2009, 04:17:50 PM
Andy,
this piece is probably Skrdlovice 1970 - pattern 7032/17 designed by Ladislav Paleček. I would like to ask you for permission to add your photos to my database.

Jindrich
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Andy on May 14, 2009, 04:42:25 PM
Thanks Jindrich,
i thought it had to be Czech ! Wouldnt have thought of Skrdlovice. its one of my best buys for ages ;D
fantastic lump of glass.
Of course you can use the photos, if you want them larger, email me direct (envelope on left) and i will send
them original size.
I hope you dont mind if i copy your reply and add it to the bowls posting.

Best Regards
Andy
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Andy on May 14, 2009, 04:48:44 PM
Fantastic :thup:
Thanks again Jindrich for the help.

'Andy,
this piece is probably Skrdlovice 1970 - pattern 7032/17 designed by Ladislav Paleček. I would like to ask you for permission to add your photos to my database.

Jindrich '

(i asked Jindric to have a look on another thread, and have copied his reply to this thread)

Its one of my best buys for ages, and i will be finding permanent shelf space for it  ;D
Cheers all,
More peace and love,
Andy
 :hug:
 
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: bOBA on May 14, 2009, 06:42:41 PM
Nice find Andy! Well done.

Us fans of Skrdlovice are all jealous!

bOBA
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Jindra8526 on May 14, 2009, 09:55:53 PM
Hi Andy,
the work with soda bubbles in glass is significant for Škrdlovice pieces. The pattern piece you have, used for as sample for fabrication, is nowadays stored in museum in Nové Město na Moravě (about 140 km south-east from Prague) (I have picture of sample from museum but I have not official permission to publish it for the moment and some people here tends to be very formal... :-) ) .

In Nové Město is also placed great stable exhibition of best Skrdlovice pieces. Here (in museum deposit is the largest and best collection of old Skrdlovice glass pieces and I am thinking day and night how to get this absolutely unique collection from deposit to some exhibition hall).

The next biggest collection of Škrdlovice is in Pardubice (100 km east from Prague) and thanks to Mr. Křen and Mr. Beránek on 26th June will start the exhibition "Magic of glass" covering Skrdlovice glass making history since 1941. See www.vcm.cz. I have not found when is the exhibition end, but I suppose it will survive few month.

Take it please like summer invitation to Czech republic for all glass lovers, this exhibition will be  worse to see, I am sure.

Jindrich
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: bOBA on May 15, 2009, 09:08:53 AM

Jindrich, Hi! I was wondering why this 2.6kg Skrdlovice bowl has been described in anothe rpost by you as a "sample for fabrication" :

"the work with soda bubbles in glass is significant for Škrdlovice pieces. The pattern piece you have, used for as sample for fabrication, is nowadays stored in museum in Nové Město na Moravě (about 140 km south-east from Prague)."


What I am trying to ask is, is it the weight of the piece that Andy found  :mrgreen: makes you think it is a sample for fabrication? Would you expect such a sample to be signed? Just curious on my own account and I am sure others would be interested to know what makes you recognise this as a very rare sounding piece? Your knowledge of Skrdlovice is genrally excellent as many at GMB would agree!


Another Skrdlovice question I have that other GMB members may enjoy is about signed Beranek. Now there is a signature in the back of the beautifully illustrated Mark Hill book HI LO Sklo by Beranek. It has quite rounded letters and a large finish to the K of BeraneK. I have seen two peices sold on German ebay with signatures, that show a sharper signature with no flourish to the "K" just very tidy small "jagged" sharp script, not rounded like HILOSKLO book sig of Beranek. 

Could any GMB members suggest why this is, is it mere forgery or did, if rushed he change sig style, or in later years change it, would any GMB member know plz???


bOBA
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Jindra8526 on May 15, 2009, 10:04:19 AM
Well, probably my English term is not correct. 
"Sample for fabrication" was used as model piece for glass maker to show him what he has to make. It was stored in factory "sample room" and every morning brought to shop. Glassmakers did not use the drawings but only these models. Each model has engraved pattern number somewhere, usualy not at bottom as one would expect.

In fact factory, as far as I know had two "sample rooms" (please give me correct English term). "Dirty room" - pieces used as model for shop, and clean show room - where pieces had been presented to potential clients. Fortunately due to Mr. Vlastimil Beranek, the most pieces from both sample rooms went to museum in Nové Město na Moravě and to museum in Pardubice, so the Skrdovice collection is not totaly lost, but naturaly some gaps exist.

The next issue - signatures.
Generaly Skrdlovice pieces had not been signed, as far as I know only recent Vizner's vases fabricated for Alchymie had been siged according to special wish of client.

Beranek family is very large - the grounder of Skrdlovice glassfactory Emanuel Beranek had 3 brothers. I am still not verz familiar with the relationships who is whoes unckle. Skrdlovice wing was Emanuel -> Jan -> Vlastimil.  One brother or cousin lives in Austria and also makes signed Beranek glass. Next Beranek had or still have factory in Zdar nad Sazavou.

I would not expect that signature published in Mark Hill's book is Jan Beránek and is placed at Skrdlovice piece. In 1979 Jan Beranek did not design nor single piece for Skrdlovice - only R. (Rudolf?) Beranek made two designs 7914/23 and 7914/13. Very helpful would be to have picture of overal piece - not only bottom with signature. Than will be relatively easy to identify it. But exist big BUT. The piece can be unique, made at symposium by Jaroslav  or Jan Beránek and then we are lost.

The issue need more research

Jindrich


Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: MarkHill on May 15, 2009, 10:15:46 AM
Yes, I agree with Jindrich - of course. From my experience when a piece of Czech glass IS signed with the name of the designer, caution has to be exercised - by and large, although there are exceptions - they are simply there to indicate the designer, rather than being signed by him. This is the case with the Beranek piece illustrated in my book, hence the reason why I wrote 'Some were added simply to indicate the designer of the piece' in the paragraph concerning signatures. The mass of (mainly 'new', I believe) 'Vizner' signed vases that have been appearing on the market are also typical. A few even have spurious (and incorrect in my opinion) attributions to having come from the Warhol collection, despite appearing to be of very recent design and manufacture. However, if I am wrong, please let me know!
Mark
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Jindra8526 on May 15, 2009, 11:25:07 AM
Yes Mark, signed Vizner's piece are rare and all of them are new, even designs are old and "re-freshed". The limited collection was ordered by Alchymie (up to 3-4 hunderds) but when fabricated, contract had been terminated and some pieces sustained in factory. I am lucky buyer of few of them.

Mark, can you please tell me, display or post the overal picture of signed Beranek piece? Meanwhile I was checking Skrdlovice Symposias, seems to me that in 1979 had not been performed. But still exist chance to find the true, Jan Beránek or his son Vlastimil could help.

Jindrich
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: bOBA on May 15, 2009, 11:26:05 AM
Thanks guys for your comments, they are very interesting and help explain some of the more complicated aspects of Czech glass design history for me.

I understand the concept of a sample but I do not fully understand what it is about this particular piece that makes it recognisable from the photo as a sample rather than just an ordinary piece. From your post Jindrich you indicate that there is a number on it that makes it recognisable as a sample, instruction piece for glassmakers, rather than a normal piece? The 2.6kg weight is normal and the rest of the appearence is like the normal production pieces? Thank you for providing the previous comments.


(Hopefully it will be possible to have a Czech glass department on GMB perhaps, like for paperweights and Scandinavian sections, where all the Czech postings can be stored, when the web site angels-admins next reorganise the site? :))

bOBA

Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Jindra8526 on May 15, 2009, 11:35:49 AM
Hi bOBA,
In this this hand free art glass production (we call it "hutni sklo") sometimes pieces slightly differ - each piece even designed and documented is in fact an original.

We have factory pattern book, where is little figure, sometimes colored sometimes not. Sometimes the real piece looks a bit different that one would consider based on this figure. Therefore is very usefull to have the photography of real glass object, or much better to have real sample. Confrontation of two or more photoes when one is surely "the pattern" gives correct answer in attribution.

Jindrich
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: bOBA on May 15, 2009, 11:40:49 AM
Thanks Jindrich,
that is clearer for me, it seems that this bowl was hand made each time and that any example of it is very rare.

(On another matter I have sent you some photos of glass by email).


thanks again,


bOBA
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Andy on May 16, 2009, 12:18:12 PM

Take it please like summer invitation to Czech republic for all glass lovers, this exhibition will be  worse to see, I am sure.

Jindrich

 ;D Hi Jindrich, your English is a million times better than my Czech, but the above quote made me smile a bit and it shows why you may get misunderstood!
I think you mean this exhibition will be worth seeing !  ;D

Keep smiling,
best wishes
Andy
 :thup:
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Anne on May 16, 2009, 12:45:30 PM
Andy, I've split Jindrich's information from the other topic and merged it into here for you. :)
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Andy on May 16, 2009, 05:05:51 PM
Thanks Anne,

Just thought id add a couple more photos.
If Jindrich, Mark or anyone wants larger unreduced copies, email me and i will send direct.

Cheers
Andy
 8)
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Jindra8526 on May 17, 2009, 04:58:30 AM
Hi Andy,
you are lucky you do not know my German, Spanish or Russian  :)

Well, your piece is definitely Skrdlovice 1970 - pattern 7032/17 - Ladislav Palecek.
Jindrich
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch thick multi colour strands, bubbles frit Czech Murano?
Post by: Andy on May 18, 2009, 11:55:41 AM
Thanks again Jindrich,
its got pride of place on the shelf ;D

A positive id could be added to this topic. Any mods out there?

Cheers all,
Andy
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch multi colour strands bubbles frit Czech? ID: Skrdlovice Palecek
Post by: Andy on May 20, 2010, 04:45:43 PM
Just for interest, a live ebay auction.....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380235071648&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

Strands of glass are a bit different to mine, out of my price range  :'(
Prefer mine anyway!
Andy
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch multi colour strands bubbles frit Czech? ID: Skrdlovice Palecek
Post by: Jindra8526 on May 20, 2010, 10:17:57 PM
Hi Andy,
your piece has a value, I told you.  :D

Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch multi colour strands bubbles frit Czech? ID: Skrdlovice Palecek
Post by: Jindra8526 on May 20, 2010, 10:22:42 PM
Piece offered at eBay is 7030/28 (had been produced aa lamp foot as well - it means hole in bottom  ;D)

Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch multi colour strands bubbles frit Czech? ID: Skrdlovice Palecek
Post by: MarkHill on May 21, 2010, 06:52:18 PM
Interesting...I saw two identical large cylinder vases in a Berlin flea market two weekends ago...
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch multi colour strands bubbles frit Czech? ID: Skrdlovice Palecek
Post by: Andy on May 21, 2010, 09:55:59 PM
mmmmmm........
Interesting, i have to say , i may be biased, but i think mine is definitely nicer,
Mark, do you have doubts to the attribution?
Jindrich, is it possible , all is not what it appears to be??

closely comparing the 2 items, i think they are very different ::)

Curious.
Im quite happy with my bowl  ;)
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch multi colour strands bubbles frit Czech? ID: Skrdlovice Palecek
Post by: MarkHill on May 22, 2010, 10:16:01 AM
No, I certainly don't doubt the attribution - Jindrich is perfectly correct of course, but certainly doesn't need me to tell him that! I simply made the comment as it's just a bit like London buses - you don't see any for ages and then three come along in a short space of time!
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch multi colour strands bubbles frit Czech? ID: Skrdlovice Palecek
Post by: Andy on May 22, 2010, 12:01:19 PM
Ah , i see what you mean, just checking.  :thup:
Did you buy them?? and were they flea market prices??  ;)
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch multi colour strands bubbles frit Czech? ID: Skrdlovice Palecek
Post by: Jindra8526 on May 22, 2010, 02:51:53 PM
Hi friends,
I really do not want to frustrate you or to cause you envy, here are few pieces from 7030 Palecek's range from my collection  ;D


Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
Title: Re: 2.6kg bowl inch multi colour strands bubbles frit Czech? ID: Skrdlovice Palecek
Post by: Andy on May 22, 2010, 02:59:05 PM
Jindrich,
too late!  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 ;D