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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Anne on April 13, 2007, 11:10:19 AM

Title: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Anne on April 13, 2007, 11:10:19 AM
I looked through the other ads you put up on the GG and managed to confirm some jugs that I suspected were by Sherdley.  Thanks for that, too!
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2949
BTW, one of my jugs in this stepped pattern is cut with a trailing vine.  Do you know whether Sherdley may have produced and sold cut glass at all, or is it more likely that a third party used their blanks?

Chris, I don't know who decorated the blanks (Heidi is doing some digging into this currently so may be able to add more) but I've seen examples of this design (called Bamboo, by the way) with various types of decoration including an etched or engraved (not sure which) RAF logo which Ray here on the board had (see copy of image attached), and the Matthey Crinkles coloured finishes as in the advert here: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2593. Re the Bamboo ad, it's one David uploaded and comes (I think) from the Pottery Gazette (he'll correct me if I've got that wrong)  and he says it dates from c.1950. According to the Design Council Archive the jug was displayed at the Britain Can Make It Exhibition in 1946, so it was current production then.

Re my advert for the sauce boat, no it's not readable on my copy either (it's one someone sent me ages ago and it's quite a small one.)

I've not been to Pontefract Museum either - it's on my list of places to go at some point when I have the time to do so!  ::) ;D
Title: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Chris Harrison on April 24, 2007, 01:05:44 PM
Hi Anne,

Sorry to doubt you, but are you sure of the Bamboo name for the Sherdley stepped pattern jug?

Lesley Jackson's 20th C Factory Glass p 163, talks about "Bamboo" as pattern for tumblers, being an AHW design from 1958.  I have one of the 4" versions, though I think there's a larger one, too.  they were apparently made until the 1970s.  I remember there being loads in my grandparents' house in the 60s and 70s, probably acquired from work...

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6640

I went to the St Helens World of Glass a couple of weeks ago.  A nice enough place, with some fascinating archaeology, some lovely pieces of ancient and medieval glass, a few Georgian to modern stunners, and absolutely no St Helens Sherdley/Ravenhead glass whatsoever.  Would you believe it?!

Hmmm, maybe this needs a different thread....

Title: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Anne on April 24, 2007, 03:46:45 PM
I'm going to wait for Heidi to comment on this as it was she who told me the pattern name. (Cop-out... moi? ;D)

Edited to add:

1. Topic split as suggested

2. I wonder if there was Sherdley Bamboo and a Ravenhead Bamboo range?  The Sherdley range seems to date from the 1930s rather than AHW's 1958 pattern.

3. World of Glass started out as Pilkington's own visitor center didn't it? Maybe that's why they don't have UGB/Sherdley/Ravenhead (the competition!) stuff (thinking aloud here really.)
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Heidimin on April 24, 2007, 09:00:07 PM
Hmmm... I've been wondering about this too... This posting has prompted me to look back through my early sources and, in the grand tradition of buck-passing, I seem to have got the name from David.

However, I'm attracted by Anne's theory of two different designs with the same name, produced at different stages of the Sherdley/ Ravenhead history. Bamboo seems right for the shape of the stepped pattern, and the two bamboo canes in the advert seem to confirm the association. (The date I have for the advert is 1948, but it may well have been run more than once.)

Anne, David and I have been wondering about whether Sherdley sold this range as blanks rather than decorating them in-house - all the adverts I've seen for Sherdley's pressed glass ranges have been undecorated. As well as etched/ engraved and crinkle verisons Anne mentions, I'm also awaiting delivery of a set with ?painted floral decoration: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260105306987 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260105306987). There's a picture of a crinkly jug at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110096456855 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110096456855). Would love to see a picture of your one with the trailing vine, Chris.

The 1958 tumblers are definitely called Bamboo - I have a copy of an advert from this year with both sizes pictured. Text reads:

Quote
‘Bamboo’ tumblers
They’re new!
Designed by A. H. Williamson A.R.C.A.
Now available from your Sherdley wholesaler. 5 oz. tumbler retails at 5 1/2d, 10 oz. at 7d each in the U.K.
A new tumbler for parties and everyday use. 5 oz., ideal for bottled fruit juices, 10 oz. for squashed. Children grip them easily – grown-ups too!
SHERDLEY GLASS TUMBLERS
MADE AT ST. HELENS LANCS.

So they started out as a Sherdley pattern, but may well have been produced by Ravenhead after production of pressed glass and machine-blown tumblers moved to the Ravenhead factory in 1964. (The only references I've come across so far to Ravenhead tableware production prior to 1964 have all been to stemware - but that's very far from a definitive statement of historical fact.)

BTW, Chris, you may be interested in another jug we've been discussing recently, which looks very likely to be Sherdley: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,13285.0.html (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,13285.0.html). In the end I bought the one listed on e-bay and, for what it's worth, the colour, weight, quality etc feel "right" by comparison with other Sherdley jugs of the period.

Most disappointing about St Helens World of Glass. Perhaps when I finish my research on Sherdley/ Ravenhead, I'll donate my accumulated haul to them! (It would be nice to get my study back...)
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Heidimin on April 24, 2007, 09:29:16 PM
Maybe we're being a little unfair on St Helens World of Glass...

I double-checked and there are some United Glass/ Sherdley/ Ravenhead items in their on-line collection at http://www.worldofglass.com/museumonline.asp (http://www.worldofglass.com/museumonline.asp) - search under Maker/ Artist for United Glass Bottle Manufacturers Ltd. and Ravenhead. Lots and lots of UGB bottles and jars, but also a collection of trade samples of United Glass tableware (ie Sherdley) produced in 1935, and some Ravenhead items (mainly promotional and commemorative ware) from the 70s/ 80s, donated following closure of Nuttall Street manufacturing plant in March 2001. Alas, no pictures.

Shame none of it's on display, though...  >:(
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Heidimin on April 25, 2007, 07:03:17 AM
Quote
I remember there being loads in my grandparents' house in the 60s and 70s, probably acquired from work...

Just read your post again, Chris. Do I gather that one of your grandparents worked for Sherdley/ Ravenhead?
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Chris Harrison on April 26, 2007, 11:28:35 AM
Ah, I've just been checking things over with family, and it's my misunderstanding.  My grandfather worked for Pilkingtons (Pilks) at their Ravenhead plate glass works, as well as at the Cowley Hill float glass works and Triplex.  A number of other rellies worked at the Sherdley plant, so they were probably the source of the tableware.  I do recall that my grandfather had to spend time on lighter duties after an accident, and he was certainly involved in making domestic glassware of some description for that period.  I wonder what Pilks were making in that line in St Helens in the 1960s.  Any ideas?  I know that Chance was a wholly owned Pilkington subsidiary by that time, but I didn't think they had any production plants in the NW.

Googling, I see that the equipment from the Ravenhead glassware factory was shipped to China when it closed down in 2003.  I imagine that's where this Ripple (formerly Bamboo) product comes from
http://www.giftware-solutions.co.uk/index.php?cat=Wine_Glasses

I note it doesn't say which Continent!  Unless it's an item that Rayware took on.  Or was it Rayware that shifted production to China?

Here's a pic of my engraved version of the Bamboo jug.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6665
You can't see from this pic, but each of the five tendrils at the bottom has a single "berry" on it.  Either the jug is old or it has had a lot of use!

I also found this chevron jug packed away in a box.  I seem to remember thinking it was Sowerby at the time, but I suspect this might be a Sherdley item, too.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6664
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Heidimin on April 26, 2007, 09:58:20 PM
From what I remember, the Rayware site is pretty coy about where their Ravenhead-branded glass is produced. Certainly not the Nuttall Street factory (which closed in 2001) - when Rayware bought it in 2003, they said they were planning to use it for warehousing. It isn't clear from the press reports whether the Chinese factory products are being made for Rayware/ Ravenhead or somebody else.

The modern Ripple wine glasses are interesting - they do look very similar to the Sherdley/ Ravenhead 1958 Bamboo tumblers. (And another example of an old Sherdley pattern name being recycled for a completely different design!)

Is the chevron jug another family heirloom?
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Chris Harrison on April 27, 2007, 11:32:44 AM
Sorry, can't remember where the jug is from.  Probably a 5p buy from a car booter!  It was a while back, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Anne on April 27, 2007, 06:37:55 PM
Oddly enough I saw the same jug in a charity shop in Kendal today so picked it up and had a feel/look. My feeling is it's not the same maker as the "Bamboo" Sherdley jug which seem to be well-made (at least those I've owned/handed have been.) The glass didn't look as good and the finishing was poorer. My feeling is it wasn't Sherdley.  No idea who it is though.  Chris, you have both - how would you compare the glass quality of them?
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Chris Harrison on April 28, 2007, 10:09:00 AM
Hi Anne,
The chevron jug feels pretty good to me. 
Thick, heavy, and a well defined pattern of 4 panels of chevrons separated from one another by 4 vertical lines.
The base has a lined pattern in 4 quarters, giving the impression of a large X with chevrons filling in the gaps.
I just lined up the chevron jug against a good copy of a ripple, a nordic and a plain bamboo (I also have a bamboo of a far lesser quality - made elsewhere, maybe?), and the chevron jug loses nothing by the comparison.  I reckon it's a good match.
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Anne on April 29, 2007, 02:38:53 PM
Thanks Chris, that's useful to know.   

Meanwhile, are these the tumblers to match the jug or not?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120113297744

At first I thought they were the Sowerby drape art-deco jug pattern but having checked against a reference pic for that pattern they are clearly not.
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Chris Harrison on April 30, 2007, 09:55:15 AM
Hmmm, I thought I posted an answer here late last night.  Guess I was dreaming!

Yes, the tumblers look to be a match for the chevron jug.  They're also the same outline shape as the nordic pattern tumblers, which I remember drinking from as a kiddy.  That would appear to support their Sherdley origin.

I'm surprised how few of the Sherdley tumblers I see any at car boots or in charity shops.  I'd love to get my hands on a few of the nordics and bamboos.  Obviously they were used more than the jugs, bowls, sundae dishes etc and often got broken.  Although they're pretty robust, and I dare say they're still in use all over the country!

Does anyone know whether the older, chunky tumblers were sold in cardboard 4- or 6-packs or just loose as per the Woolworth photos?

Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Heidimin on April 30, 2007, 04:40:13 PM
Interesting question about packaging...

There's a set of Nordic sundae dishes in Ravenhead packaging for sale on Canadian e-bay at the moment (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160098618655 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160098618655) - to the best of my recollection, I've never seen any Sherdley pressed glass with any form of packaging.

None of the Sherdley pressed glass adverts I've seen show or refer to packaging - unlike the screen-printed tumblers (introduced in 1958), where the packaging (also designed by AHW) is both pictured and highlighted as a sales point in the text.

The only pressed glass advert I've seen where prices are mentioned is the one for Bamboo tumblers in 1958 quoted above, where the fact that prices are quoted per tumbler suggests that they were being sold individually rather than in packs. Whereas adverts for screen-printed tumblers in the same year give prices per carry pack of six.


Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Anne on April 30, 2007, 11:24:20 PM
Yes, the tumblers look to be a match for the chevron jug.  They're also the same outline shape as the nordic pattern tumblers, which I remember drinking from as a kiddy.  That would appear to support their Sherdley origin.

I'm surprised how few of the Sherdley tumblers I see any at car boots or in charity shops.  I'd love to get my hands on a few of the nordics and bamboos.  Obviously they were used more than the jugs, bowls, sundae dishes etc and often got broken.  Although they're pretty robust, and I dare say they're still in use all over the country!


Chris, I've not seen the Nordic tumbler yet so hadn't twigged the shape, but again, thanks for the confirmation. :)

Thinking about it, I hardly ever see Sherdley tumblers either. I have several Nordic pieces (jugs, bowls, sundaes, covered dishes) which tend to be reasonably common. Now I'll have to go looking for the tumblers to satisfy my curiosity!  ::) ;D

The only Sherdley tumbler I've seen (and bought) was one of the Twist (http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-1030) pattern in blue, which is somewhere en route from me to Heidi via David. I was surprised how small that was!  :o
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Chris Harrison on May 01, 2007, 09:50:48 AM
Well spotted, Heidi!  If Ravenhead, Made in England, they could theoretically have been manufactured at any time up till 2001 or so, no?  Interesting that the seller has 3 x 4 pieces for sale, presumably all packaged.

I remember that, back in the 60s, Woolworth used to sell all their glass and china as individual pieces, and I seem to recall reading that in the 50s Sherdley had some sort of exclusive deal with Woolies.  Sorry, I can't remember where I read it.

Anne, I seem to have the same type of Nordic items as you - sundaes, cream jug, large jug, large bowls and a circular butter/cheese dish with a extended flat rim - or is that what you mean by a covered dish?  I haven't seen a Nordic tumbler in over 30 years.  I would have thought they'd be fairly commonplace.  Hmmm...  Perhaps there were fewer pieces made in that design than I thought.  Know of any other pieces?  Whether in Nordic or any other Sherdley design?
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Anne on May 02, 2007, 01:30:36 AM
I have two different covered dishes, Chris. One has a larger rim than the other. I'll try and get them side by side for a pic later.  8)
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Chris Harrison on May 02, 2007, 11:59:36 AM
Here's an ad that you may enjoy. 

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6779

Kindly sent to me (for sharing) by Paul Seaton who created the terrific Woolworths history web site at http://museum.woolworths.co.uk/
 
I have a 700Kb high res copy.  If anyone wants that, please just ask.

Anne, the tumbler at centre top is the same shape as the ones you pointed out on eBay.  The ad resolves a number of mysteries for me, and I now know that I have another 5 pieces of Sherdley in my stash (jug and fruit bowls).  We also now know where a lot of that pressed pinwheel stuff comes from!

The ad gives a good notion of the range of types of item produced by Sherdley.
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Heidimin on May 05, 2007, 01:46:44 PM
Thanks for publishing this, Chris. I'm a big fan of the Woolworths Museum site and of Paul Seaton, who's a really nice man and a true enthusiast. If I remember rightly, this ad dates from spring 1940. I have a copy of one from the previous year, which shows many of the same items, as well as a few more utilitarian kitchen items.

I wondered whether the tumblers might have been a later addition to the Nordic range, which might account for their relative scarcity. But they're featured in an advert published in 1952 and again in 1956, so maybe it's just that they were more prone to breakage.
Title: Re: Sherdley Jug (split from Pressed glass (mint) sauce boats)
Post by: Heidimin on April 04, 2008, 09:16:55 PM
A couple more answers from my rummagings through the Alexander Hardie Williamson holdings at Himley Hall.

The jug and tumblers in the advert David posted (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2949 (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2949)) are called Classic. Designed by AHW and produced from 1946.

The Chevron jug and tumbler are also by Sherdley. Not clear whether AHW designed the jug, but he certainly designed the tumbler - see pic attached (courtesy of Broadfield House).