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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: mhgcgolfclub on May 06, 2006, 11:37:57 AM

Title: Harrach or Moser
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on May 06, 2006, 11:37:57 AM
I had this pair of Vases for about 2 years , I bought them in a antique shop near to me for what I considered a bargin price ,they were sold just as a pair of vases no maker, after much research I,ve always believed that they were Harrach, I think moser may have made similar items, I would myself date them to the 1890's, under a UV light the whole vase glows quite brightly, they are very large each vase weighing over 2kgs and  stand 11 inches tall and have polished pontil on base, after hours of searching web sites like ebay I have never found another example for sale, or in any books, I have seen a similar type of vase which has dolphin feet i think which was Harrach and smaller examples with lizards, any help in confirming maker please , also the vase are in perfect condition
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/th_har5.jpg) (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/har5.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/th_har4.jpg) (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/har4.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/th_har2.jpg) (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/har2.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/th_har1.jpg) (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/har1.jpg)
Title: Harrach or Moser
Post by: Ivo on May 06, 2006, 12:24:15 PM
I do not believe Moser made anything quite like it; on the other hand Sèvres did - but it could be quite difficult to research.
Title: Harrach or Moser
Post by: Leni on May 06, 2006, 12:26:44 PM
:shock: Wow!  I love those!   :D

From the style I would agree with you on date, and I'd also love to know who made them, if it's possible for someone to say!   :shock:

Of course, I'd love them even more if they were green, but that's just me!   :wink:  I'd still definitely give them house-room!   :lol:
Title: Harrach or Moser
Post by: paradisetrader on May 06, 2006, 12:49:42 PM
Ivo, has Sevres glass always been made by Daum ? or did they have their own facilities at one time ?
Title: Harrach or Moser
Post by: Ivo on May 06, 2006, 12:59:15 PM
No no no, Sèvres was an independent glass factory of great repute which finally merged out of existence - I believe some time before WW1. The brand name used by Daum CFC has no relation to the old factory.
Title: Harrach or Moser
Post by: BSevern on May 06, 2006, 11:50:00 PM
These are most likely Harrach.  There are similar pieces in the Harrach museum (although they tend to be decorated).

Even the Moser pieces are typically Harrach blanks, which can make attribution even more confusing.  Remember Moser didn't make glass until  1893,  before which they sourced their blanks from other Bohemian companies such as Harrach (colored glass) and Meyr's Neffe (clear crystal).

Brian
Title: Harrach or Moser
Post by: KevinH on May 07, 2006, 02:17:08 AM
Cyril Manley showed one of these vases in his book Decorative Victorian Glass - item 63. He described it as:
Quote
A Richardson specimen, a much earlier piece than I thought when I acquired it. The body is their early citrine, and the lizard is hand-made. Notice the 4 stubby feet and blurred edges. c. 1870. 29.2 cm (11 1/2 in) high.


When I saw the photos here I thought that perhaps these had come from the Manley collection, originally auctioned off in 1986 (I think it was that year). But there are differences in the postions of the lizard and the shapes of the rim decoration. However, the colouring of the vase and of the lizard, the feet and the drop decoration, is identical.

Was Manley correct in saying it was a Richardson piece? Maybe. Maybe not. I have never had any satisfactory resolution to my past questions of what, if anything, in Manley's book was misattributed.

As Brian says, Harrach certainly made pieces like this - but I was disappointed when I visited their museum a few years ago as there were no examples of applied creatures on show. But I did see a good example of this type of wrok in the Regional Museum in Jelinia Góra, Poland. I thought that one, which had a multi-coloured lizard on a floral-decorated vase with drop-decorated rim and base, was probably a Harrach item. But the museum curator was uncertain about its attribution and in the books showing the vase it is listed only as "Central Europe".

I would like an example of this type of work, but I have not seen one availible in the UK (I started collecting Victorain glass after the original sale of the Cyril Manley collection, otherwise I would tried for his example(s).)
Title: Harrach or Moser
Post by: Cathy B on May 07, 2006, 04:29:17 AM
Astounding! I love it.  Isn't it interesting how figural detail increases the collectability/attractiveness of a piece? Insects, animal or human figures trump other patterns showing just as much skill. I wonder why that is?

Cathy
Title: Harrach or Moser
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on May 07, 2006, 08:55:56 AM
Thanks for the info and input so far, as I said I bought the vases in an antique shop in Lewes East Sussex about 2 years ago, if they are about 130 years old they must have been well looked after as there is not even a slight chip or nibble even on the feet, would any one be prepared to estimate a value on the pair, I paid £275.00 for the pair and I still think that that was a bargin or I hope so
roy
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 16, 2011, 11:05:40 AM
I might go with English for this on the basis of the uranium amber glass  :huh:
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: Jindra8526 on February 16, 2011, 02:52:31 PM
My guss is Harrach about 1920

Jindrich
www.cs-sklo.cz
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on January 22, 2012, 06:00:17 AM
Sorry Jindrich for missing your reply.

I still have no confimed maker, I may try and add some better pictures

Roy
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on January 22, 2012, 01:41:36 PM
I'm possibly completely out of court here, but have you looked at Auguste Jean pieces as well?
I have no idea how good the attributions are on google search but it appears some have this rigaree as well as applied salamanders and fish etc.
and the colour combination.
m
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on January 23, 2012, 09:19:55 PM
Thank you m

I have looked at Auguste Jean many times and still think that it may be a possibility along with Harrach, Moser or English.

Roy
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on January 23, 2012, 09:45:26 PM
I have seen a similar vase 'id'd' as Stevens and Williams, however it has drips from the rim down and the lizard is not the same as yours (the lizard is not as detailed as yours and frankly, imho not as good  ;D)  - But I don't know whether that id is definitely right as there was no reference with it - and I am absolutely not the right person to pass judgement on whether something is as good as something else lol.
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: Ivo on January 23, 2012, 09:47:00 PM
I was happy with the attribution of Sèvres for this one. But yes, it was attributed 20 years ago and opinion may have shifted.
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on January 23, 2012, 10:05:40 PM
oooh Ivo that is gorgeous  :mrgreen:
I shall off to look for more Sevres - but there didn't seem to be  much on the net unfortunately
m
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on February 02, 2012, 11:13:19 PM
There is an amethyst vase with blue trails id'd as Sevres - page 418 Cappa 'Le genie verrier de l'Europe' just for reference
m

Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on February 25, 2012, 06:16:41 PM
http://www.fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/resultsLotDetails.asp?lotsID=24938&menuItemOn=2&salesID=60&hasImage=1

No definite id for this one but it does have some similarities, most notably the colour of the blue over amber.
m
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on February 25, 2012, 08:43:26 PM
Thanks m for the link

I have to agree colours are very similar and so is the style

Roy
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on April 06, 2012, 11:45:33 PM
well, as I said on another post, it's a minefield out there   >:(
with regards the vase I linked to in my post two up from here (Fieldings attribution was 'Late 19th century Stourbridge possibly Thomas Webb')  I have now just come across a remarkably similar vase, so close that either it's the same maker or two different factories had the same idea, and that one is id'd in Truitt's as Harrach 1895, page 59 no 3.  It's different colours yes, and the rim points are turned down, , but I can't believe that they aren't both the same maker.  So I'm now not sure whether they are both Harrach or English to be honest  ::) 
m
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on October 10, 2012, 03:46:52 PM
Roy is it possible please to upload a picture of the vases directly onto the board and also to upload a clear picture of the base showing the pontil mark and the shape of the base?
I'm trying to id another vase and am interested to see the shape of the base particularly.
Many thanks
m
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on November 04, 2012, 12:18:22 PM
m I have only just seen your request if its not to late I am more than happy to upload some pictures for you

Roy
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on November 04, 2012, 12:20:00 PM
no not too late - I would love to see pics please.  Many thanks
m
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on November 04, 2012, 03:48:54 PM
m pictures requested if you need any others please let me know.

2nd and 3rd pictures of base of each vase

Roy
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on November 04, 2012, 03:59:51 PM
fantastic pictures - thanks so much!
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on January 09, 2013, 07:51:04 PM
Is the body brown or amethyst please?
m
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on January 09, 2013, 08:41:41 PM
m the body is brown

Roy
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on June 14, 2013, 11:46:24 AM
There is now a vase on The Gilded Curio in the same body shape as yours I believe.  It also has the applied feet and handles the same as yours, but instead of the lizards this one is enamelled.  It is identified as Harrach (and has a spurious S&W stamp on the base)

http://www.thegildedcurio.com/item-Harrach-36.html

m
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on June 16, 2013, 08:42:23 AM
Thanks m

I have had a good look and the shape looks exactly the same. The colour of the main body is quite a lot lighter than mine. I am not sure what to think about the S&W signature stamp on the base.

Roy
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on June 16, 2013, 08:59:22 AM
Alisa says it is a spurious signature and identifies it as Harrach.  I think she has the Harrach book as well.
Whilst there is no reference for that, having looked at a multitude of these pieces I would agree. They used different colours so I wouldn't go on colour.  The body of the vase is the same shape and is optically ribbed etc. 
I'll go and check the fakes and forgeries section in CH British Glass to see if that stamp is there for S&W.
m
Title: Re: Harrach or Moser
Post by: flying free on June 17, 2013, 12:11:08 AM
In Charles Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914 I could not find that mark either under Stevens and Williams marks or under Fakes and Forgeries.
In The Crystal Years, the book about Stevens and Williams there was no record of any marks. Just for future reference, not that it definitely precludes your vases being made by S&W, there were no pieces that bore any resemblance to your vases in this book either.
m