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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Scandinavian Glass => Topic started by: jonchellycain on February 16, 2011, 09:51:45 AM

Title: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: jonchellycain on February 16, 2011, 09:51:45 AM
Hi all
well this is the piece i won in my auction dilema, it is an almighty great piece in more than one way.
It weighs in at 5.9kgs, 22cm high and 18cm in diameter.
Now im not very good with religious stuff so need a hand with this, there is a chap on the front holding a cross with a tree behind him, i did wonder if it was the burning bush?? or was that a talking bush  :pb:
The base reads Orrefors.landberg. then i cant quite make out the rest possibly 21KO.88.AS.
Can anybody give me some more info as im struggling to find anything on this. Also i know we dont do values on here but if anybody has any idea on value for this beast can they P.M me
many thanks
michelle
http://i77.servimg.com/u/f77/14/37/17/66/100_8322.jpg
http://i77.servimg.com/u/f77/14/37/17/66/100_8323.jpg
http://i77.servimg.com/u/f77/14/37/17/66/100_8324.jpg
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 16, 2011, 12:30:05 PM
You bush is not burning - it has leaves and flowers on it!
There was a tv programme recently on identifying your saints in art - (very, very important for understanding Spanish art) and for the life of me, I can't remember all the correct details. Benedictines are in black, Francescans in brown, the other main thing to look for is the cord they wear, and whether or not it is knotted.

However, your monk there looks decidedly Francescan to me - perhaps St. Francis himself?
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: jonchellycain on February 16, 2011, 12:39:11 PM
Many thanks Sue, i am absolutly no use at all with anything saintly or religious. It give us a place to start anyway
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: Anik R on February 16, 2011, 12:40:27 PM
Isn't St. Francis always depicted with animals?

By the way, I think it's a lovely vase -- I like how the outline of the legs can be seen through the garb...  although I do wonder why it's partially see-through.  :usd:
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: jonchellycain on February 16, 2011, 12:42:51 PM
Anik great minds think alike.. i was rather thinking the same thing, isnt that a sin or maybe thats the test you have to look at the semi naked man and not think rude thoughts.. i failed!!! at least we can sit together in the warm ah Anik  >:D
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: johnphilip on February 16, 2011, 12:59:03 PM
It looks like an olive tree , the leaf and the fruit . Sermon on the mount  :huh: :angel: :t: :hi:
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: Anik R on February 16, 2011, 01:02:15 PM
Maybe it's Saint Ansgar?
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 16, 2011, 01:18:18 PM
I don't know if Francis is always with animals, but that is still a valid point. :thup:
It's the simplicity of the robes which is very Francescan - there are no white under-bits, the rope/cord is un-knotted.
Again, I was watching a programme last night (pre-recorded) the one on the history of the fig-leaf in art - so there was a lot about the nudity of religious figures - nakedness was at one time meant to signify the inner beauty and purity through the depiction of outer beauty, and there were times the Catholic church was quite happy about it (as long as the male parts are miniscule - this was based on the ancient greek statues which had been found.)
Of course, there were other times Rome decided it wasn't suitable - a fabby statue of a naked jesus by Barbini in a wee church had it's bit knoced off by a friar who was unhappy about it. It is now draped in a bronze "bit of material".
I think there have been times when Michaelangeo's Adam in the Sistine chapel has been covered up, then uncovered again. There's a great big fig-leaf in the deep dark recesses of the V&A, designed specifically to cover up their copy of David.

"Sermon on the mount" is old testament, pre-monks and the catholic church.
I've never heard of St. Ansgar - something for me to find out, out of curiosity Anik, as it's somebody you know of - but there are an awful lot of them.
Sometimes the stories can be very interesting - from the point of view of totally whacky!

(I'm sure, when I was in Holland, I discovered somebody got sainted for bringing back to life children who had been boiled into soup - it might even have been santa!  >:D And where, I ask, is the santa smilie when I do actually want it?????)

Are we getting off topic? I was thinking that if the image can be id'd, it might be a lead.
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: jonchellycain on February 16, 2011, 01:25:45 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansgar
Info on st Ansgar Sue
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: Anik R on February 16, 2011, 01:30:49 PM
I figured since the vase is Orrefors, the saint might be Swedish, hence my St. Ansgar guess.

I know nothing about saints. 
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 16, 2011, 03:35:48 PM
St. Ansgar seems to be wearing white robes with a dark hood, I can't find info. on the "uniforms" of the different orders on wiki, though. Neither can I remember the order which has white robes!
The Franciscans have a strict rule of poverty, given the commercial produce of the Benedictine monks, I would imagine poverty is not quite so high on their agenda!

I do normally shy away from religious stuff, but the church has been so important in the history of art, so many great paintings are of this sort of theme, sometimes you simply have to look at the art and ignore the subject matter.

What is it he is holding? A swathe of material? A snake?

This piece is stunningly beautiful.  :thud:
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: yesvil on February 16, 2011, 05:04:04 PM
Lovely thing! Maybe try looking at Constantine too.
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: johnphilip on February 16, 2011, 06:31:30 PM
Actually i didnt look at the main figure as i was rushing out  just asumed it was Jesus , i can see it is probably a Monk but the tree is not a fig in my opinion , i have seven in my garden i still think its an olive tree . sorry i need specsavers i thought he had a DR Martens on one foot .
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: dirk. on February 16, 2011, 07:40:04 PM
Found this great resource for saints and their attributes, unfortunately I´m still no wiser...  :huh:
http://www.heiligenlexikon.de/Patronate/Attribute.htm
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: Paul S. on February 16, 2011, 07:52:11 PM
how about St. Anthony in the wilderness................being an atheist I know naff all about saints in general, but like Sue I have a love of art, and do recall there being a big thing in early Christian images about this guy called Anthony going into the wilderness for some reason or another.............perhpaps he gave rise to the origin of "stop the world I want to get off"  -  not get off in the carnal sense you understand ;).     Anyway, I have cheated and taken the following from you know where........
"He is often erroneously considered the first monk, but as his biography and other sources make clear, there were many ascetics before him. Anthony was, however, the first known ascetic going into the wilderness, a geographical shift that seems to have contributed to his renown".
So, what do you think.............yea, stupid idea really ;D

Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: jonchellycain on February 16, 2011, 10:38:02 PM
Crikey when i saw this vase i thought man with all that on the base this should be nice and easy to find, was i wrong or what.
michelle
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: Sue C on February 16, 2011, 10:49:32 PM
It is Saint Francis of Assisi,  saints drummed into me as a Catholic child (relapsed now ) images also depict him holding a cross aloft not just with animals, but there is usualy an animal somewhere in the image.
try here http://francisassisipncc.org/saintfrancis.html

I have to say though that i think the vase is stunning.

Sorry meant to say Lapsed!! as to say rethunk redrunk and just unthunk  :thud:
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: jonchellycain on February 16, 2011, 10:51:59 PM
Well done sue most definatly him i would say look at the statue to the left of the link, looks very similar to my vase
 :hiclp:
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: Sue C on February 16, 2011, 11:02:55 PM
When i was a child at school the teachers used to put images of different saints up each day and we "had!!" to know who they were or else punishment, and beleive it or not i have forgotten most of them appart from st Beradette, Joseph, Francis, Martha, and a couple of others, and i only remember Martha because her prayer was slapped into me because it was our scholl motto!
Little flower at this hour show thyne power
 
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: Carolyn Preston on February 17, 2011, 01:58:49 AM
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Jesus that preached the sermon on the mont? Which means it has to be new testament.  :wsh: :ooh:

Carolyn
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: ahremck on February 17, 2011, 02:55:23 AM
About the vase signature.  The AS will refer to Anders Svensson who engraved at Orrefors from 1939 - 1981. (Duncan's - Orrefors Glass book)

This is a slightly limited edition hence the full Landberg name.  Probably a 'Gallery' piece.

I suspect the pattern number for the basic vase is 2140, and the engraving type is 88 (presumably there are 87 other subjects engraved on similar vases).

Hope this is some help.

Ross
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: langhaugh on February 17, 2011, 06:07:52 AM
Hi:  It's not a Gallery piece, but a production piece. In the Orrefors catalogue for 1940, according Ricke, Swedish Glass Factories. I'm not a huge fan of engraved glass, but these pre-1950's pieces from Orrefors are stunning. There's a series of vases with similar motifs designed by Lindstrand, Landberg, and Ohstrom.

These pieces seem to fetch a decent price as the last similar piece that was on here, what appeared to be an unsigned Lindstrand piece, went for over $220 on eBay.

David

 
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: jonchellycain on February 17, 2011, 09:39:07 AM
excellent, so is there a picture of the piece in either book?? Is there anyway of finding the edition size if it is a limited edition? im presuming there wont be a great deal of them due to size and cost in making anyway.
It is an amazing piece Stunningly worked
I assume that if an unsigned piece went for that money mine has a greater value with the full signiture. Do you remember the size of the previous one. I will have a look and see if i can find it
many thanks
michelle
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 17, 2011, 12:36:47 PM
 :pb:

Brain abberration alert, you are right, of course, Carolyn.
I read "sermon on the mount", my brain defaulted to "moses getting his commandments" - the common feature being the mountain.

(just like the other week when I mistook my wee cat having a nap in her normal bed for mother's fox-fur hat, which I hadn't seen or thought about for 30 years....)  :ooh:

Thanks to Ross and David for good and proper info. based on the marks! :rah:
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: langhaugh on February 17, 2011, 04:22:26 PM
Michelle:

Yes, there is a picture in Ricke's book, which is a reprint of  an Orrefors catalogue. There is one size and one colour, clear. The piece is not included in Ricke's Swedish Glass, which had larger pictures of what he holds to be the important pieces. Could the "88" be "B8," which is a code for the year of production, 1951.

The other piece I referred to was a little contentious. The thread is http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,37877.0.html.

Bill Geary and Daniel are the ones who could provide info on how many were made possibly, but it wasn't necessarily a small number. Orrefors had a many engravers at this time. There was also a a good many similar pieces made. The pieces with religious scenes don't seem as highly regarded as the the Balinese dancers, Josephine Baker, or the pearl divers. Still a stunning piece on which you should do well.

David
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: Carolyn Preston on February 18, 2011, 12:43:35 AM
Brain abberration alert, you are right, of course, Carolyn.
(just like the other week when I mistook my wee cat having a nap in her normal bed for mother's fox-fur hat, which I hadn't seen or thought about for 30 years....)  :ooh:


We need a BAA smiley. Lord knows I make them often enough!  :chky:

Carolyn
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: johnphilip on February 18, 2011, 12:00:00 PM
Did you put the cat on ?
Title: Re: Massive Orrefors Landberg vase 5.9kg, religious scene ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 18, 2011, 12:28:09 PM
 :o
No, I just got a fright  :thud: before I realised that the fluffy red-brown bundle was a proper living creature.
(sorry,  :hj: )