Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Bernard C on June 29, 2009, 11:49:30 AM
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I happened to switch to Bargain Hunt today after finding out when the Australian Male Voice Choir will be in action at Wimbledon (unmissable viewing!), and I saw a boxed set of cutlery — a perfect match to the pickle fork and cake knife illustrated in Chance Expressions p42, with the highly polished blades and imitation mother-of-pearl handles.
David Encill says "The accessories are all marked Sheffield Steel, but the maker is unknown."
No longer unknown, David. The box was clearly marked "Walker & Hall, Sheffield."
Bernard C. :angel:
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Oooooohhhh well-spotted Bernard! :hiclp:
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Good spot, but perhaps no medal. According to
http://www.museums-sheffield.org.uk/coresite/html/searchresults.asp?SearchOn=makerassets&ID=205
Walker & Hall
The firm expanded throughout the late 1800s and early 1900s. At their height, it is thought to have employed almost 2000 workers. In 1963, Walker & Hall Ltd, Mappin & Webb and Elkington & Co of Birmingham were brought together to form British Silverware Limited.
As this cutlery was supplied to Chance in the 1970s (stamped with the later logo, which is acknowledged as post-1970), this was some years after the merger. It is therefore possible that British Silverware Ltd was responsible, via Elkingtons, which was a Birmingham-based manufacturer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Elkington
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David, is it not possible that the cutlery Bernard saw was made prior to the 1970s though, and still in production later when Chance bought theirs. By then it would be after the merger, but it possibly was originally a Walker & Hall design...?
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The cutlery is all stamped with the later, geometric logo, used by Chance post-1970. It is possible, I suppose, but the company was still British Silverware
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David — I am surprised that you think that I would post information of this quality here without checking it first. Of course I did a thorough check on Google before posting.
That revealed the museum website that you found, containing information up to the 1960s merger/takeover. Several other sites continued the history. Of particular importance was this page (http://www.purelysilver.info/londonmakers2.html) from http://www.purelysilver.info (http://www.purelysilver.info) which adds:
Although the name is still used in retail outlets, Walker & Hall were taken over ... in the 1960's.
So, irrespective of where it was made and what name was on the factory, it looks as if the range was still being sold to the public as a Walker & Hall product made of Sheffield Steel when that web page was written, presumably after the 1970s; either that or it had been discontinued by then, but had always been sold as a Walker & Hall product.
Whatever, I didn't perceive it as necessary to clutter my post with unnecessary and complicated speculation about the history of the Walker & Hall factory and trading name.
Bernard C. 8)
... and the Australian Male Voice Choir was magnificent today, despite having a Wimbledon official as a minder, a security guard, and, at one astonishing point, a stiff talking to by head? of security, who presumably threatened to do a meat-hook job on them behind the bike sheds, possibly with the SAS using them as target practice! ;D
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All of which makes makes Walker & Hall a retail brand name, not a manufacturer's name, and therefore not directly relevant to items made for Chance. Your information Bernard, although valuable, has only pointed to the group, not the factory for this custom order. I'm not quite sure why you are taking umbrage Bernard
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Christine — I disagree with you.
I will start at the end. I am not taking umbrage — I am attempting to ensure that what David puts in his sequel to Chance Expressions is correct, and I am sure that he, like all of us, would like to achieve that. Chance Expressions stands alone amongst recent published works on British Glass for accuracy, completeness, usefulness, lack of any obvious defect in the author's experience, readability, grammar, and punctuation. It is a pleasure to read or reference. I'm sure any sequel will be of the same standard. My interpretation of the available information was that simply referring to the cutlery as a Walker & Hall range would be unambiguous and correct.
Walker & Hall was both a manufacturer's name and a retail brand name. From the information I've seen I don't know whether this range of cutlery was made in the original Walker & Hall factory in Sheffield throughout, as I don't know when the group closed that particular factory, or whether the range was first made in the Walker & Hall factory in Sheffield, with production continuing at some other factory in the group after the Sheffield factory closed.
That's all.
Bernard C. 8)
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Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you were trying to say, or perhaps the way you said it :huh: But steel produced in Sheffield doesn't have to be made into cutlery in Sheffield. Sheffield steel was the first 18:10 stainless steel
lack of any obvious defect in the author's experience, readability, grammar, and punctuation. [I know I edited it all; there are bits where it could be better though.] It is a pleasure to read or reference. I'm sure any sequel will be of the same standard. [It will. ;) ]
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Thanks for the support Christine, and I hope the sequel will come up to the mark. Naturally, virtually all of the information has come to light since the book was published, as it weeded out people who I would not have come into contact otherwise. I have now identified five (of six?) Green Leaves patterns, which is entirely due to members of GMB and readers of the book having found the missing examples.
Bernard: thanks for the kind comments. The following data will nonetheless be included in Chance Additions:
//boxout: It is probable that the manufacturer of the cutlery was British Silverware Ltd, which was a merger of three companies in 1963; Elkington & Co. (Birmingham-based electro-platers), Mappin & Webb and Walker & Hall Ltd (both Sheffield-based). Thanks to Bernard Cavelot for the lead.
//end
Finally, in my own datasheet Hints & Tips for Authors it includes the words, "Behind every successful author is a good editor" and the importance of this statement can never be underestimated. Much of the cohesiveness of the book is due to Christine.
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Christine — I never said that this cutlery was stainless steel. Actually I thought that it was chromium plated!
David — I don't write kind words! In fact I am not really sure what kind means in this context.
... and please don't include an in-line acknowledgement. It looks ridiculous, as though I'd been blackmailing you or something. I'm more used to my name, however inventive the spelling, appearing at the end of a long list of credits, or, more usually, not at all.
Bernard C. 8)