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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: keith on November 21, 2012, 02:05:22 PM

Title: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: keith on November 21, 2012, 02:05:22 PM
Gone through my books,can't find a match in any,hence the dodgy title ::),large polished pontil mark,8 inches high,hepl please ;D ;D
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: keith on November 23, 2012, 09:07:11 PM
Just seen one with a similar pattern on ebay,listed as Walsh,could it be? ::)
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: Bernard C on November 24, 2012, 04:27:25 PM
Keith — I looked at your vase soon after you posted, and thought, no, it's not a floral pattern I recognise.    Then I thought about it some more, and realised that your vase was considerably stretched, and twisted at the top.   There was nothing I could do about the twisting from the single side view, but I could squash it.    So I dropped it into IrfanView and squashed it.   See the outcome below.    ;D

About an hour ago I found a Walsh mother of pearl example, and tried to match it to your squashed image.   Similar, but not the same.   I then realised that your vase might have a completely new base, i.e. the bottom part of the full pattern might have been removed with the pucellas in the process of forming the bulbous base, which would also explain the twisting at the top of the vase.   Success at last.   Your floral pattern matches the top two thirds of mine, with a small part of the pattern at the top missing as well.

I can't see any hints of a thin inner layer of opal glass, nor can I see any iridescence.   If so, it is Walsh canary opalescent.   Dating is a little tricky — I suggest late Victorian to early C20.

Interesting piece, Keith.

Bernard C.  8)

ps — note that I have not kept any copies of your image file on my PC, normal or squashed.
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: flying free on November 24, 2012, 04:49:38 PM
Fantastic imagination and imagery Bernard  ;D
m
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: keith on November 24, 2012, 06:44:43 PM
Many thanks for your time and effort Bernard  ;D as you say no iridescence or opal layer,I'm quite welcome for any one to use my pictures for reference etc... again thanks,another piece to my growing collection,piece number 13 I think,not at all unlucky ;D ;D
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: nigel benson on November 26, 2012, 12:16:34 PM
Well thought out Bernard ;) :D Nice one ;D

Nigel
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: flying free on November 26, 2012, 12:59:54 PM
Interestingly however, there is a vase in Das Bohmische Glas 1700-1950 that I believe has this pattern on it   :-\ and is identified as Graflich Harrachsche Glashutte, Neuwelt - the shape of the one in the book dates to 1896-1897, the  product no is 1686/2 but the   Dekor is from 1900 and called Floret.
height 20.5cm
did Walsh and Harrah and for that matter other makers of these (American?) use the same patterns perhaps?
could someone who has the book please check my reference?  thanks
m
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: flying free on November 26, 2012, 10:01:31 PM
I've looked again in the book and I do think the pattern matches. 
But I was just about to ask Keith to take another photo against a black background as the one in the book looks 'different', more ethereal, I thought because of the lighting.  However, having another look at the description it appears (to me at least) that it is the same pattern but outlined in gold which is why it looks slightly more ethereal. 

Having searched again I found this example on my link below - however it is not the same pattern as far as I can see as, as either Keith's vase or the one in the book (at least the part of the pattern that can be seen on Keith's vase and in the book) but is outlined in gilt and has been id'd as Harrach Blumenfloret.  The one in the book is id'd just as Harrach 'Floret'.  I'm not sure whether there is a distinction between the two names for different patterns ? or what ?
This vase I'm linking to has been identified as Harrach Blumenfloret and I'm linking just to show the gilding effect which I think is the same as on the one in the book - the patterns are different though.
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/72302-vaseline-opalescent-vase-in-brass-stand
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: keith on November 27, 2012, 12:57:21 AM
I shall have to get that book,ah well just as I thought it was id'd ,you couldn't email me a picture from your book please m? ;D
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: flying free on November 27, 2012, 08:31:10 AM
yes I can do of course.
Bernard, Nigel, if you don't have the book shall I email a picture to you as well, as I could be wrong and would very much like an opinion on this, as there seems to be so many vases being attributed to or identified as Harrach recently, that have had other id's or attributions before.
m
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: nigel benson on November 27, 2012, 11:10:16 AM
m,

Thank you, yes, that would be useful :)

nigel
Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
Post by: Bernard C on November 27, 2012, 01:52:31 PM
Keith — I was looking for my recent mention of my Walsh Primrose A3226 vase, which looks as if it was made in a worn second-hand Continental mould, when I looked at the start of the relevant topic here:
  • http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46465.0.html
    • In reply 5 you posted images of eight of your Walsh collection.   6727 (i), 6727 (ii), and 6730 (iii) are leaf/floral patterns, made in the same mould as mine and your vase with the bulbous base that is the subject of this topic.   If you mask off the bottom 35% and the top 10% of any of these three, and allow for some stretching and twisting, you should find the matching element of the pattern easily enough, especially if you use my squashed image to help.

    Back to my A3226.   Evidence, strengthened when you consider the dimensions, I believe, that Walsh bought in or exchanged in that mould.   Over the years on the GMB we have seen more and more examples of moulds changing hands.    It doesn't surprise me that Walsh may have sold or exchanged moulds.   If they could obtain more than just the scrap value for what they regarded as a redundant mould, why not?

    Bernard C.  8)     
    Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
    Post by: flying free on November 27, 2012, 02:01:26 PM
    Keith, Nigel, I've sent you both a email via the message board but I can't attached pictures.
    m
    Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
    Post by: keith on November 27, 2012, 04:56:16 PM
    Thanks m,I looked up that book on Amazon,it was £500 !!!!! :o :o
    Thanks Bernard I'll have a look.
    Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
    Post by: flying free on November 27, 2012, 05:01:37 PM
    keith if you reply to my email I will be able to sen dyou th e pic
    m
    Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
    Post by: keith on November 27, 2012, 08:36:40 PM
    Thanks m,I've been trying for the last 10 min's to figure out how I do that,I've searched messages etc...,help ::) ::) ;D
    Bernard: I've looked at the other pieces and can see what you mean in regards to the pattern,each flower head has six petals on all the vases/bowls,ta.
    Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
    Post by: flying free on November 27, 2012, 08:40:58 PM
    I've opened my email link.
    If you send me a message I should get your email address.
    the message I sent I think should go through to your emails anyway?
    m
    Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
    Post by: flying free on November 27, 2012, 10:43:56 PM
    is this the same pattern as yours? and is this one called Walsh Chestnut?
    http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,32042.msg173110.html#msg173110

    I also found this which Dave has on his site, id'd as Richardson called Horse Chestnut
    It looks different I think and is different to the one id'd as Harrach 
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/27236145@N07/2543201618

    I'm still comparing the Harrach pattern to your vase.  The pattern matches your vase but I think the flower has 7 petals (difficult to see because of show through).  The pattern also seems to show other flowers with 5 petals, but again difficult to be 100% certain.  Does the pattern on this known Walsh have different sized flowers on it please?
    m
    Title: Re: Possible Walsh/Powell/Stuart vase?
    Post by: keith on November 28, 2012, 12:55:58 AM
    Yes,same as the Walsh chestnut,the other,as you say has 7 petals and what look like 'thorns' on the stems which mine do not have,I'll go check my emails now, ;D ;D