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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Malta Glass => Topic started by: keith on October 29, 2009, 03:38:22 PM

Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: keith on October 29, 2009, 03:38:22 PM
Mod: This thread has been created from posts in a discussion on a paperweight that was queried as a possible Mdina item. The original discussion included examples of Mdina vases as an aid for colour comparisons with the paperweight. Then things moved on to a general query on various Mdina vases and that is what has resulted in the following fascinating posts.


Now that two of what I thought were Mdina are not would you be so kind to cast your eye over all my unmarked pieces and let me know if anything dodgy stands out,thanks,Keith.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 29, 2009, 04:10:14 PM
They only odd bit is the vase with the white insidey bits and the blue casing (centre of the second image) - it might be either Mtarfa or Phoenecian, rather than Mdina.
The chevron pattern in some bits I believe, is a design by Joseph Said. Tiger was designed by Eric Dobson - these are post-Harris.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: keith on October 30, 2009, 08:09:50 PM
One more question then I promise to shut up(for a while).The small vase on the left,marked Mdina,we've had for some time the other was given to us recently and I presumed it to be the same but then noticed the sticker which says Mtarfa,which came first the round or the square?the Mtarfa looks older to me.Also thought the large vase was Mdina but after posting it on the GMB I was told otherwise,can't remember who said,any idea where it's from?Keith.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 31, 2009, 10:38:34 AM
The splodgy stuff is a bit later than my interest, Keith, and I've not seen a square Mtarfa before, but given Mtarfa was set up by Paul Said, Joseph Said's brother, and they both trained at Mdina as MH's apprentices, I would imagine that in general, this style was started at Mdina and continued at Mtarfa, but I would still have no idea which of these two came first - I don't know how long this style was made at Mdina.

Does your big cloudy ambery bottle have a round ground pontil mark? It certainly looks like early (as in Harris/Boffo) period to me.

I have a large bottle like this, with a huge stopper, in blues and yellows, also some smaller, tall bottle decanters in this cloudy style, and another bottle in Earthtones, in a particular style of the design, many of which come with round ground pontil makrs, and while i have no official confirmation, I strpngly suspect they mught be Boffo. I also have a small round vase in the same colours as your bottle, with a similar patern in it to this unusual Earthtones design, but with the remnants of an old Mdina sticker on it. I'm convinced it's Mdina. An early bit.

Always happy to help!
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: keith on October 31, 2009, 10:48:16 AM
What would I do without you,thanks again,yes the bottle has a ground out pontil mark,so it can stay with the rest of the Mdina,ta oh so much,Keith.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 31, 2009, 11:08:32 AM
That would confirm the Harris/Boffo period then.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: Cathy B on October 31, 2009, 03:14:29 PM
 :) Sue and Adam, many thanks.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: keith on October 31, 2009, 07:33:19 PM
Can see the similarity with that diagonal band of colour,does anyone know where they're from?Keith.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2009, 11:05:17 AM
We never came to a conclusion about the bottle, and we've not had any comments from Mark or Ron.
The bottle is far more early Mdina-y than the weight, I wouldn't even venture to say they're from the same place.

The colour of the bottle is more distinctive of early studio glass.
Silver salts were used in the early days of the RCA and the Glasshouse, as was an amethyst coloured glass melted in the pot. I have been wondering if the bottle might be something from there and then.

The applied foot completely throws me, and I wouldn't actually rule Mdina out, I just haven't ruled it in.

I think the weight is far more contemporary.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: aa on November 01, 2009, 11:07:37 AM
Is the colour in the foot a reflection? I am wondering if the foot is actually clear....
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2009, 11:18:02 AM
Looking at the images in the thread about the bottle, I think it is, Adam.

But the actual colours are difficult to work out, because the pics are taken under artificial light, and against coloured backgrounds.

This piece is signed Pauline Solven, RCA '67, and shows an amethyst glass with silver salts features.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/crizzle%20and%20ubdercliff/Paulinesyinyang1.jpg
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: keith on November 01, 2009, 01:23:58 PM
You'll have to excuse my ignorance,who/what is RCA?
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2009, 02:04:46 PM
Royal College of Art, Keith.
Where, back in '67, while Michael Harris was tutor in Industrial Glass, Sam Herman came over to give a lecture about the "new" form of glass, the recipe for which had been invented by Dominic Labino, which mean that small quantities of glass could be melted in a small kiln, rather than requiring the huge industrial sized pots used by big industry.

This meant that, for the first time, artists could get their paws on hot glass in a studio setting, and the Studio Glass Movement was born in America. 
Sam stayed on and hot glass facilities were set up at the RCA, bringing the Studio Glass Movement to the uk.
Michael Harris was incredibly inspired by all this, and went off to Malta to start Mdina glass, Sam took over at the RCA, and from his work with the students there, "The Glass House" was born - a small shop/studio, where the burgeoning new studio glass artists sold their work.

That's roughly it, in a nutshell.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: keith on November 01, 2009, 02:51:17 PM
Ta very much,have heard of Herman and Labino,saw a piece by Marinot a couple of months ago in Portobello,£2000 the dealer wanted,very large piece way out of my price range,beautiful though,Keith.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: Andy on November 01, 2009, 03:14:05 PM
Hi ,
yes foot on little bottle is clear, this is the thread,
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,18422.0.html

(dont want to hijack this thread though! )
Andy
 ;)
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2009, 03:17:34 PM
 :24: :24: :24:

I would doubt very much indeed that the piece you saw was really by Maurice Marinot - especially at such a low price, Keith!
Tragically, most of Maurice Marinot's work was lost in a fire, very few pieces remain and most of them are in museums.

(I'm not laughing at you - but at the audacity of the seller!)

I think he is considered to be more part of the Arts and Crafts movement - he preceeds the Studio Glass Movement of the '60s.

Sam Herman (now a British citizen) is currently working with Adam,  - as in Adam Aaronson, who is right here on the GMB!
 
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: keith on November 01, 2009, 03:23:57 PM
Like I said before I'm still learning,good job I didn't have the money to buy it then,intend to visit Adams studio on my next visit to town,Keith.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2009, 03:27:42 PM
The whole purpose of the GMB is to help folk learn, Keith.

Every question helps promote disscussion and to facilitate learning for everybody.
 :thup: :thup: :thup:

and as I edited to add, I wasn't laughing at you, but at the audacity of the seller - who had been hoping to take advantage of somebody, and hopefully, the GMB helps to prevent that sort of thing going on!
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 01, 2009, 05:06:37 PM
Just my two pen'orth. It wasn't a recipe Labino came up with, it was a small enough gas-fired furnace that would melt cullet or marbles. John Airlie of Kirkhill Glass took it one stage further when he developed a small gas-fired furnace that would produce glass from scratch.
Title: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2009, 06:04:54 PM
 :thup:
Thanks, Christine.
I'll try to track down my reference for this, (can't remember where I read that bit in particular,perhaps I imagined it?). Have found this info, though, in "American Studio Glass 1969-1990". Martha Drexler Lynn.

p.54. "Littleton and Labino focussed on how to prepare molten glass that could be blown. The first batch of glass did not melt into a workable consistency, and the stoneware container (one of Littleton's vessels) used as the crucible broke apart in the high heat. Labino suggested that they remover the failed batch and melt directly into the tank. He also urged them not to waste time on perfecting glass formulas, but instead use his#475 glass marbles, which were used by Johns Manville to make fibreglass."
Title: Re: Mdina Pieces - Yes or No
Post by: KevinH on November 01, 2009, 10:44:27 PM
Hi folks.

Just giving this thread a "bump" so Non-Paperweight folk have a fair chance of viewing the discussion, which originally took place as a development to a paperwight query. :)