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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Poland => Topic started by: rocco on September 23, 2012, 10:52:51 AM

Title: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on September 23, 2012, 10:52:51 AM
Attractive little vase, 12 cm high, colourless glass, surface with silver oxide reduction decoration.
Delicate cut and bevelled rim, base moulded...

I would think it is from the same maker as >> this one (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,17001) -- kindly identified by Ivo as coming from household glass factory Tadeusz Wresniak in Tarnow, Poland?

Thanks
Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: Ivo on September 23, 2012, 11:11:15 AM
almost certainly.
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 23, 2012, 11:25:46 AM
Ooooh, interesting!
I missed the 2007 post (I was absent then) I haven't seen or heard of this maker or these gorgeous pieces.....

They do remind me a bit of more recent surface-decorated Hortensja pieces.
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on September 23, 2012, 01:08:45 PM
Thanks!
The decoration is really nice, isn't it...

So Polish and quite contemporary, then; are these mass-produced pieces? (If so, shouldn't we see more of them sold as Knizek/Antonienhütte, then? 8))

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 23, 2012, 01:23:57 PM
I'd have noticed any of these around!
I was very attracted to the Hortensja pieces and bought a couple - without knowing what they were, just because they are so lovely. I gave the brown on to a friend who broke their piece but kept my blue goblet.
(pics attached)

I do think your piece is even more attractive than the Hortensja bits I've seen - I haven't seen many.
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: flying free on September 23, 2012, 01:46:14 PM
Nicely made pieces - how much do they weigh please?
m
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 23, 2012, 01:51:02 PM
My Hortensja is not the same thing as the pieces in question, but it weighs 9 oz. It's 7" tall.
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: flying free on September 23, 2012, 01:52:58 PM
thanks Sue.  So not overly light weight.  I find I have a better concept of glass if I know how much it weighs iykwim?
m
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 23, 2012, 02:07:10 PM
The glass is thin, but the stem is solid. I'm fairly sure the beaker-shaped vase in browns and yellows I gave Pete was about 3-4mm in thickness. Not lightweight, but not overly substantial.
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on September 23, 2012, 05:03:49 PM
Mine weighs about 250g; the rim and walls are really thin (less than 1 mm glass thickness), but the base section is rather heavy.
So mine could be Hortensia as well, I guess -- if several Polish companies used this technique.

I think there has gone some effort in this piece, bevelling such a delicate rim...

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 23, 2012, 05:23:23 PM
Yours is even nicer than the browny-yellowy Hortensja pieces I've seen, honest! The overall effect is very "moss- or lichen- growing on stone" - while my blue goblet seems to be slightly streaky.
I wouldn't think it was the same maker, the effect on yours is different... a bit more individual and artistic. :)
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: Ivo on September 23, 2012, 05:53:55 PM
The way I understood it from Wrezniak is that they used this technique on any piece if the customer wanted it - and I figure Hortensja was a customer. We've seen these piece surface with labels from everywhere. They're no longer produced now - the cost was prohibitive.
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on September 23, 2012, 05:59:45 PM
Thanks for the additional info, Ivo!

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 23, 2012, 06:22:13 PM
Thanks from me too! :-*
I have seen a large fruit set in this design (which I was sure was Hortensja) - a very large round bowl with 6 smaller - very simple shape, I think the small bowls had applied handles. I didn't buy it, because it was priced at £170, described as Art Deco......
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on September 23, 2012, 06:44:02 PM
I saw a jug with similar decoration recently, too; the seller claimed it was WMF Lavaluna glass (which it was definately not). But I was rather unsure if it was recent Polish, or a turn-of-the-century Josef Knizek piece...
How would you tell the differnce?

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 23, 2012, 07:10:35 PM
I wouldn't know WMF lavaluna or Josef Knizek or turn of the century, sorry!
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: Ivo on September 23, 2012, 07:54:14 PM
I wouldn't know WMF lavaluna or Josef Knizek or turn of the century, sorry!

same here.
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on September 23, 2012, 08:03:21 PM
Thanks ;D

Well at least I have a vague idea how WMF Lavaluna should look like (having seen 2 pics in the WMF Ikora book)

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: flying free on September 23, 2012, 08:43:20 PM
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/48582-josef-knek-vases-big-and-small
beautiful glass -
m
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 24, 2012, 09:18:04 AM
Now, minus the strapping, that is just like the browny-yellow Hortensja.  :)
It may take a little time, but I can track down images of my old "beaker".
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on September 24, 2012, 05:58:13 PM
I had looked at >> this site (https://sites.google.com/site/loetzandglass/czech-jugendstil--other-makers) before I started the thread about this piece, but somehow managed to miss picture Nr. 21 8)

So mine seems to be a drinking glass, not a vase...
I am not sure if the author thinks the water set is Knizek/Antonienhütte, or Polish/Wrzesniak.

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: flying free on September 24, 2012, 06:00:17 PM
I don't think so. The caption above says 'these two are documented Knicek' but the one underneath says
'and a water set from the internet' ...no commitment as to whether or not it actually is Knicek
However, it might be good to email with your piece and perhaps a link to this thread.
m
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 24, 2012, 06:06:32 PM
Piece number 18 is a match for the beaker-vase I had - and I can see my goblet in the cabinet of glass above number 21!
The cabinet seems to be labelled thus;

"KNICEK GLASS
Knicek glass is quite distinctive.  The PANDORA glass line, consisting of metalic reduction of enamels, was created by master enamel artist Maximilian Boudnik.  it is quite difficult to find in this country."

my goblet has its Hortensja plastic label still on it.

To what country might the cabinet label refer when is is saying it is difficult to find?
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: flying free on September 24, 2012, 06:12:24 PM
The site is Alfredo's and I think the comment is referring to finding it in the USA
m
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on September 24, 2012, 09:17:01 PM
If even the Passau museum can't tell the difference between Knizek and Polish ;D

edit: just found the original sale of the water set my glass belongs to: http://www.ernstgaleria.hu/english/antiques/stuff25.html (http://www.ernstgaleria.hu/english/antiques/stuff25.html)
Attributed to Maximilian Boudnik...

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: flying free on September 24, 2012, 09:30:28 PM
well can I ask, are we absolutely sure it is not M.Boudnik?  The effect on your glass and that set is not exactly like Sue's or the others that have been id'd as Polish is it?  or am I confused?
m
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: Ivo on September 25, 2012, 06:55:02 AM
The water jug is on page 2 labeled 11-329 1.5L h220 in the Huta Szkla Gospodarczego Tadeusz Wresniak catalogue of 2000.
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on September 25, 2012, 07:08:45 AM
Thanks m and Ivo.
Sounds like a solid ID :)

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 25, 2012, 07:24:37 AM
Yup, yours is the old one (c1900) while the Hortensja (which does look different - the effect is less fussy on the older ones).

Umm - Have I got it right? ;)
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: flying free on September 25, 2012, 01:55:05 PM
I think they are both new Sue - Ivo has said the water jug in that set is featured in the Huta Szkla Gospodarczego Tadeusz Wresniak catalogue of 2000. And your goblet is labelled.
It might be nice to email Alfredo as I'm sure a firm id on those pieces would be welcomed.  It will help sort out any further pieces attributed to Knicek that might turn up and which might not be.  Might be a good idea to email the Passau as well.
m
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 25, 2012, 02:11:54 PM
I wouldn't have a clue how to. I'm meant to be writing to another site (glasmunsterbuch?) about my "Darth Vader" vase, but couldn't work out what to say, far less translate it via babelfish or see how to get in contact..
(I am suffering from major brain-non-co-operation and lcak of soooooordinatinoroo at the moment. Didn't correct that last wee bit!)  :-[
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: Ivo on September 25, 2012, 02:55:09 PM
Alfredo is well aware of the situation and explained several years ago:


Quote
Pandora glass is the name given in the Passau Museum catalog to glass made for Knicek by Maximilian Boudnik. Eddy photographed the only Knicek case, so we can study their shapes. ...most of it had no metalwork, though pieces do appear with copper overlay.

I did receive pictures of pieces from Wrzesniak's Mimoza line of items.  They told me what they told you.  It is not popular and made by commission only.

What I find quite strange is their contention as to having "invented" a process that was already in use for a good 90 to 100 years before they produced it.  Moreover, I have two pictures: one a goblet by K and one a goblet by W.  I am sorry to say that the stem in the Polish goblet is quite suspiciously like the stem on the Czech one.  But it may be a coincidence.

The fact is that Wrzesniak, which carries no identifying mark, is being sold as antique Knicek.  I myself brought a piece from France for my collection, and found another one right here in the USA.

I have diligently searched Internet for examples of Knicek and have come up with only a handful, some of which I am sure now are Wrzesniak (once you type this jaw breaker several times it becomes easy).

I think you will not get any more detail than that.
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 25, 2012, 03:03:37 PM
(Sue glas-musterbuch is easy to write to, as that's our lovely English-speaking Pamela)
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: flying free on September 25, 2012, 03:06:36 PM
Thanks Ivo, that's good.  I suppose it might be better if the jug and glasses set was better identified on the site though as the explanation could read a little ambiguously.
I think they are all very lovely whether they were made a few years ago or 100 yrs ago.  I suppose it matters, but the technique and quality seem the same and it was obviously an expensive technique to produce.
m
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: flying free on October 17, 2012, 01:47:29 PM
Interesting pair of vases on this link that look to be the same surface technique but with the addition of trailing all over them.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1622909
m
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on October 17, 2012, 02:03:34 PM
Thanks for the link, m!

Those look much more convincing Art Nouveau Knizek than the Polish pieces...

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 17, 2012, 04:07:10 PM
 :'(
With a correspondingly true Art Nouveau price....
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: paradisetrader on October 17, 2012, 06:35:10 PM
see also topic
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,22637
with reposted photos in the latest post
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on January 24, 2014, 10:31:32 AM
One more! In a few years I will have the whole set ;D

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 24, 2014, 12:21:57 PM
Gorgeous. Even the pink ( :o ) works beautifully well in it.
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: rocco on January 24, 2014, 04:38:33 PM
Thank you, Sue. It is actually not that pink, more copper coloured.

Less green iridescence than the first one, but I like the colourway a lot, too.

Michael
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: alfredo on February 15, 2015, 02:08:26 PM
I apologize for the confusion.  The water set is Wresniak. definitely.  I explained it all three years ago!  By the way, I just posted my THIRD Knicek piece on CW!
Title: Re: Vase, silver oxide reduction technique, Tadeusz Wresniak, Poland?
Post by: Anik R on April 03, 2015, 03:50:28 AM
I found a boxed set of glasses from Huta Hortensja which look the same as Michael's.  They are delicate and very thin-walled, but heavy-bottomed.  Each glass differs in weight, height and even colour.  (I'm sorry for my poor photos.  I'll try to take better photos in a few days).

Anik

P.S.  Michael, thank you for directing me to this thread  :)