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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: rbm6167 on February 19, 2005, 08:52:56 PM

Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: rbm6167 on February 19, 2005, 08:52:56 PM
Can anyone help in the identification of a paperweight which I acquired at a car boot sale today?
It is 3 and 3/4 inches high and 3 and 1/4 inches at its widest.
It features a blue water lily with two lilypads sprouting out of a base of green canes. A tiny frog sits on the edge of one of the lilypads.
Thanks in anticipation.
rbm6167

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7302266079&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: KevinH on February 19, 2005, 09:28:23 PM
Almost any paperweight with a "lily-type" flower and a tiny creature such as a frog or bird included is recent Chinese production, probably not much older than 5 years and still in current production in enormous numbers.

Some may even have a genuine Murano sticker and may have been purchased from a Murano shop. But they are Chinese.

Very "cheap and cheerful".
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: rbm6167 on February 20, 2005, 10:40:20 AM
Thanks very much for your reply. I am a new collector and obviously have a lot to learn - but it is so much fun doing so.
If you are the same KevH with the contribution on the Ysart glass site, then may I say that it is very impressive and, I am sure, will be a constant reference point for me.
Regards
Ronnie
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: KevinH on February 20, 2005, 06:52:37 PM
Hi Ronnie,

Quote
If you are the same KevH with the contribution on the Ysart glass site, ...

Guilty!

Quote
... then may I say that it is very impressive ...

You certainly may. Thanks.

Quote
... and, I am sure, will be a constant reference point for me.

That's good to know.

I suppose I really should get on with the updates to my pages - I have yet another weight with many examples of good quality "Salvador" canes.
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Leni on February 21, 2005, 10:33:32 AM
Quote from: "KevH"
Very "cheap and cheerful".

But certainly with the emphasis on cheerful!   :D

For a time I tended to dismiss Chinese weights as intrinsically inferior, but of late I have observed that many of them are really quite attractive and nicely made.

I like this one very much!    :wink:

Leni
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2005, 07:29:07 PM
I have serveral of these paperweights too I thought that they were
made in West Virginia USA I went to a glass factory there and watched them make one of the ones I have.
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: KevinH on February 21, 2005, 11:14:29 PM
Guest said:
Quote
... I thought that they were made in West Virginia USA I went to a glass factory there and watched them make one of the ones I have.


That's very interesting. Do those ones also have the tiny frogs / birds? And are the the "Lilys" also set at an angle (as well as often being upright)?

I am aware that many "Lily-style" weights have been made in the US since the 1920s to the present day. But I am surprised if weights looking just like the modern Chinese ones are being made there.

Maybe I am not up to date with the US output? Any further information on this would be very useful.
Title: paperweights
Post by: malibu97 on March 03, 2005, 04:50:33 PM
I was at Olveey in West Virginia, USA and they do alot of glass blowing thereI wached them make a paperweight with tiny bubbles in it they were doing alot of interesting things I am not sure about the frogs and lily pads but I have one that has a butterfly in it and it is beauiful It has a big blue rose in the middle too..
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Leni on March 03, 2005, 05:10:17 PM
Quote from: "Leni"
I like this one very much!    :wink:
Leni


Liked it.  Bid on it.  Didn't get it.  Beaten by a late bid snipe  :cry:

Ho hum.  

Leni
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: aa on March 03, 2005, 09:37:08 PM
snipe? more like snip! http://www.lundbergstudios.com/crystal/crystal.html click on mixed crystal paperweights where you can see the real thing....and note the prices :D
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Leni on March 03, 2005, 10:15:45 PM
Quote from: "aa"
snipe? more like snip! http://www.lundbergstudios.com/crystal/crystal.html click on mixed crystal paperweights where you can see the real thing....and note the prices :D

Yeah, yeah!   :roll:

My real ambition is to own a Paul Joseph Stankard.  And a Debbie Tarsitano.  AND a Jim Donofrio.  AND a Rosenfeld.  AND an Ayotte.  AND a Trabucco.  Oh, and a Salazar, of course.   :twisted:

However, until I win the lottery (and since I don't even buy a ticket, 'it *couldn't* be me' ..... ) I guess I'm just stuck with bidding for more modestly priced weights on eBay   :(    

Leni   :wink:
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Anonymous on March 03, 2005, 10:59:25 PM
You' never know whats around the corner Leni....about 8 years ago I wandered into a fair at 2 in the afternoon and right on the front of one the stalls was this excellent paperweight....I duly happily paid my £25.
Sent my photos off to Sweetbriars and found myself with a somewhat expensive Bacchus weight........... what I couldnt understand is why it hadnt been snapped up for its superb quality...when I bought it I didnt know what it was.........anyway I want one of Stankards superb huge rectangular weights with all  life forces tangled up in the root systems.
ah well....dream on eh
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Frank on March 03, 2005, 11:59:33 PM
Never give up hope, I sold a pair of earrings with Paul Ysart canes but made by Debbie Tarsitano for well under a 100 pounds!

Bargains always land in your lap when you buy with your heart - because you never make mistakes.
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: KevinH on March 04, 2005, 01:39:51 AM
Leni, really ... your ambitions are only set at:
Quote
... a Paul Joseph Stankard. And a Debbie Tarsitano. AND a Jim Donofrio. AND a Rosenfeld. AND an Ayotte. AND a Trabucco. Oh, and a Salazar, of course.
:D

So, you don't like Barry Sautner's work, then? Or are you sticking to "regular" paperweights rather than the more adventurous? For those who are not aware of some of world's best carved "sculptural paperweights", check out the Sautner pieces at Larry Selman's dealer site:
http://theglassgallery.com

And how about all the other excellent US paperweight makers such as Chris Buzzini, Randall Grubb, Mayauel Ward, etc etc etc.

 :wink:

Oh yes, and for those of us not lucky enough to find a Bacchus paperweight for under than a few thousand £ ... Jim Brown, also a US maker, produces regular millefiori weights in the Bacchus style (but all properly signed with his "B" cane) - he took his ideas from the antique Bacchus pieces. Again, check out Larry Selman's site for examples.
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Leni on March 04, 2005, 08:45:53 AM
Quote from: "KevH"
So, you don't like Barry Sautner's work, then? Or are you sticking to "regular" paperweights rather than the more adventurous? For those who are not aware of some of world's best carved "sculptural paperweights", check out the Sautner pieces at Larry Selman's dealer site:
http://theglassgallery.com

Wow!   :shock:  

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Kev.  Another artist to add to my list  :D
Quote
And how about all the other excellent US paperweight makers such as Chris Buzzini, Randall Grubb, Mayauel Ward, etc etc etc.

 :wink:

OK, AND them too!   :twisted:  It was late and I was just listing favourites off the top of my head.  

My 'Main Man' is still Stankard though.  With Donofrio not far behind.  I LOVE those masks!   :P  And I heard it rumoured that Donofrio was the originator of Stankard's little 'earth spirits' or 'root people' when he worked with him.  

I am just starting to look more closely at millefiori weights.  I have a couple, but I think I still love lampwork best.

But thanks, as always, for educating me and broadening my (already eclectic  :lol: ) tastes!

Leni
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2005, 10:14:11 AM
Leni

More affordable lampworker Allan Scott (http://www.voloeditions.com/Scotglass/AllanScott.htm)

Kevin,

Sautner's pieces ARE amazing, are there any European paperweight makers going down this art path? Or is it just an American phenomenon?
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: KevinH on March 04, 2005, 05:22:42 PM
Frank raised a good question:
Quote
Sautner's pieces ARE amazing, are there any European paperweight makers going down this art path? Or is it just an American phenomenon?


I only know of Sautner doing that type of work to that degree of finesse. Maybe there are others who have produced items along similar lines but to be honest, if it's done within the "art glass" field rather than a direct connection to paperweights, then I am not up to speed with what's going on.

As for it possibly being an American phenomenon, I think it's more likely a one-man show - at the level of precision of Sauther's work. He developed a technique which could be called "single-grain chasing" I'm not sure about the proper technical name for this, but essentially, by directing a stream of single grains of "sand" (or whatever is used) through a small hand-held nozzle, he is able to carve away very thin layers of glass with incredible control to produce all sorts of wonderful effects.

If we consider diatreta glass, where the ouiter layer of carved design is supported only by thin "pegs" - all of which were carved by hand, undecutting the outer deisgn, we get a very basic idea of the skill needed. Again, consider those Chinese ceremaic balls within balls within balls, each layer carved to separate the inner parts into free spheres. Well, to my mind, what Barry Sautner has done takes diatreta and Chinese balls to a level that few could even consider attempting.

Unless, of course, anyone does know of other equally fine work, in which case I would be pleased to learn of it.

Just a pity that I will probably never be able to afford such an item. :cry:
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2005, 07:03:29 PM
Quote from: "KevH"
If we consider diatreta glass, where the outer layer of carved design is supported only by thin "pegs" - all of which were carved by hand, undercutting the outer deisgn


Actually that is not how the Diatreta were made - another of those myths in glass. I will see if I can find the article I found recently - a schloarly dissertaion on the method used.

I was not particularly referring to the Sautner but to all of the fine art weights that are being displayed alongside him on Selmans site. Sure some of them are pushing the conventional view of the paperweight ... and then there are the marbles and the Murrine work - though not much of that there at the mo.

These people are developing remarkable skills that are obviously rooted in paperweights but breaking out of the strictures.. pity that they are so expensive but then Selman's is not a source for bargains anyway.
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Leni on March 04, 2005, 09:14:36 PM
Quote from: "KevH"
He developed a technique which could be called "single-grain chasing" I'm not sure about the proper technical name for this, but essentially, by directing a stream of single grains of "sand" (or whatever is used) through a small hand-held nozzle, he is able to carve away very thin layers of glass with incredible control to produce all sorts of wonderful effects.

According to Jonathan Harris - who was very helpful and open about his methods when questioned at the Cambridge Glass Fair  :D - 'sand' blasting is now done with aluminium oxide rather than silicon oxide!  Other than that, the technique is the same, but can now be done with pencil thin point tools - the 'single grain' method mentioned above :shock:

Leni
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: KevinH on March 05, 2005, 03:16:27 PM
Frank, please do try to find the dissertation on the Diatreta process you mentioned.

As some of you will know, in 2004 the Glass Cone (newsletter of the Glass Association) ran an article on the Constable-Maxwell "cage cup" (or hanging oil lamp) sold through Bonhams. But they did not take the opportunity to mention a non-carved method of making. So any new thoughts on this would be very welcome.

---------------

General point about American paperweight making:

One of the reasons that many of the American studio weights are relatively expensive is that they are made entirely by "torchwork" rather than the more widely known "tank / kiln" method. Also, when the modern American studio makers produce their intricate flowers, every petal, stem and leaf is made by "lampwork" and assembled piece by piece to build up the whole multi-part flower. This is in direct contrast to the easier method of mass produced "crimp" flowers, where the petals are produced in one go by pressing the glass into a pre-formed crimp mould.

After constructing the "lampwork" flower, and other elements, a billet of crsytal glass is heated over the torch and when ready, the flower etc are added to the billet and the whole thing worked to produce the final article.

For an intricate design in an American studio weight, it can take a whole day (and perhaps more) to make just one weight!

You may have noticed that I have put words like lampwork and torchwork in quote marks. This is really just for emphasis, but interesting discussions on the term "torchwork" have been had over the last few years. Some folk maintain that working at the lamp or torch are the same thing. Others would argue that lampwork applies only to construction of smaller elements and that the complete working of a paperweight at a torch, using a billet instead of a gather, is actually a different process. In some respects I think it's a bit like discussions on "makers" versus "artists", which can be applied across the whole realm of modern art glass. Whatever the semantics, torchwork artists are here to stay - and the prices probably do fairly reflect the often exquisite detailed workmanship.

-----------

I am very happy that paperweights ("gift-type" / "collectable" / "wow-factor") have had a good airing recently. So I really must give a plug for the UK-based Paperweight Collectors Circle (since I am current webmaster for the site). Those of you who have developed an interest in these fascinating 'baubles', and are not yet members, may like to consider joining, even if only for the full-colour newsletter produced 3 times a year - http://www.kevh.clara.net/index.htm
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Leni on March 05, 2005, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: "KevH"
I am very happy that paperweights ("gift-type" / "collectable" / "wow-factor") have had a good airing recently. So I really must give a plug for the UK-based Paperweight Collectors Circle (since I am current webmaster for the site). Those of you who have developed an interest in these fascinating 'baubles', and are not yet members, may like to consider joining, even if only for the full-colour newsletter produced 3 times a year - http://www.kevh.clara.net/index.htm

Kevin, I am ashamed to admit that I hadn't joined up (yet) and will remedy this omission at once  :P

Re Allan Scott:  I looked at the site you mentioned and examples of his work.  He is certainly very good!   :shock:

I have just (literally!) bought a paperweight on eBay which looks to me to be identical to his 'Dahlia' produced at Jay Glass in 1982.  The seller said they thought it might be by John Deacons - not sure why - but it certainly looked like Scott to me.  I'll let you know when I get it and maybe post a picture.  

Nobody else was bidding on it at all!   :o  I was surprised, 'cos it's a beautiful weight whoever made it   :roll:  

Perhaps the ?? JD attrib put people off?  As in, 'That's not a Deacons!  I'm not falling for that one!'  My gain, anyway!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Leni
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: KevinH on March 05, 2005, 04:50:04 PM
Hi Leni,

Jay Glass was set up by John Deacons (1978 to 1983). Allan Scott joined John as lampworker in 1979, but weights were all "Deacons". When Jay Glass closed, Allan went to Caithness Glass where items he designed or made were "Caithness".

It's the person who does the encasement, or the Company for non-studio work, that is regarded as the maker. But lampworkers and cutters do get credit sometimes, particularly for studio work and this is more so these days. It's good that in many of the current Scottish weights the other workers do get a fair share of the recognition.
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Leni on March 08, 2005, 11:06:17 AM
Quote from: "KevH"
Jay Glass was set up by John Deacons (1978 to 1983). Allan Scott joined John as lampworker in 1979, but weights were all "Deacons".

Kevin, Frank,

Many thanks for the info on Allan Scott.  I have just received the 'Dahlia' paperweight I bought on eBay and it is definitely the one shown on your page about Scott, Frank!   :D  I am delighted!  (One where my heart *didn't* lead me astray!   :P  )

BTW, I have also just bought a weight on eBay which I am convinced is a Clichy!  I don't have it yet, but from the pics I am sure I can see at least one Clichy rose   :shock:   I will let you know when I get it if I think I'm right - and maybe ask for confirmation?   :wink:  

Oh, and Kevin, the email problem was at my end!   :roll:

Leni
Title: is this the same weight originally posted here?
Post by: myweights on September 03, 2006, 06:12:57 PM
pic no longer available?
I was sold this weight this past friday. Was told by the auctioneer that it is from the estate of Ava Gardner purchased by 2 sisters (paperweight collectors) here in NC, and proof could be provided. All the proof I have is the receipt stating Large Paperweight - Ava Gardner. As far as Ava Gardner and paperweights I found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ava_Gardner

about her knocking out Howard Hughes with one, this one is big enough to kill though and no dings. lol

Here's the weight:

(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9824/p1010005sb1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

As far as 5 yrs or so dated in a prior post, she died in 1990 I also see, so this one would have to be atleast 16 or so yrs old at the very least. Also I notice 4 distinctive blue dots along the white floor the tiny frogs are nestled on.

Any input would be most helpful and appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark E.
Title: Paperweight Identification
Post by: Frank on September 03, 2006, 07:48:40 PM
Quote from: KevH
Frank, please do try to find the dissertation on the Diatreta process you mentioned.

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1015.0.html
Title: Re: is this the same weight originally posted here?
Post by: Leni on September 03, 2006, 09:35:19 PM
Quote from: "myweights"
I was sold this weight this past friday. Was told by the auctioneer that it is from the estate of Ava Gardner purchased by 2 sisters (paperweight collectors) here in NC, and proof could be provided.


Hi Mark, this weight looks like a modern (as in any time after 1930)  Chinese to me.  I have a couple in this 'coral' style, but without frogs, although I do have a couple of others with frogs in.  

Looks like yours is a combination of two styles.
(http://i3.tinypic.com/281dd1i.jpg)
(http://i7.tinypic.com/281d5yb.jpg)
Title: hi leni
Post by: myweights on September 03, 2006, 09:47:53 PM
I have one with a larger water lily and larger frogs that is undoubtedly Chinese. The frogs in this one are alot alike but about 1/10th scale.
Thanks for the info.
Mark E.