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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Andy on January 25, 2012, 04:27:49 PM

Title: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on January 25, 2012, 04:27:49 PM
Got this at auction today, listed as Mdina, i didnt recognise it, i thought the Red was very Whitefriarish, and it had a
polished pontil mark, i wondered if it was a Boffo piece when he was at Mdina because of the silver chloride .
I sent Sue a pic from my phone, not a very good one, and she recognised it as Whitefriars, a Baxter experimental range
that never went into production! Its shown on page 143 of Lesley Jacksons Whitefriars book.
I found this on google,
http://www.whitefriarsorg.org/a3-messages/a3a-msg-2001/messages.htm
a chap says he bought one while working at Whitefriars, only 2 made.

Hope you like it,
comments welcome, and many thanks to Sue xx  :kissy:

Cheers
Andy

Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: glassobsessed on January 25, 2012, 04:43:46 PM
Very flash! :hiclp:

Lovely find. :mrgreen:

John
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 25, 2012, 04:55:35 PM
 >:D dribble, drool, lust..........  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chriscooper on January 25, 2012, 05:42:07 PM
I hope it is but not to be confused with the New studio range which were production pieces in 1978 and were also made in ruby with a kingfisher overlay? the 9882 similar at 10" but the strapping appears to go farther up the vase, seen the experimental in ruby and the strapping was more of a close band so hopefully it could be.
Would put it on Whitefriars.com but  in the forum and not the isit section a few on there James Starr or Richard Anderson collect these.

A link here.... http://www.whitefriars.com/catalogues/contents.php?id=10283
Sorry just about to go to work so no time to look deeper for you.

Chris
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: jimbo1 on January 25, 2012, 08:47:54 PM
Hi,

As Chris says Pat 9882 from the new studio range. This looks to be a nice strong colour and very well seeded. Quite rare, I  have found a couple and are often described and mis-sold as murano.

Nice find  :hiclp:

James
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: flying free on January 25, 2012, 09:57:31 PM
gosh, I don't know anything about Whitefriars but to me there looks to be a difference between what is in the catalogue and what Andy has posted - I would never have recognised it as being the same vase.  I can't see any bubbles in the one in  the catalogue, the strapping on the one in the catalogue looks to be much wider than Andy's and done slightly differently somehow, and the one in the catalogue doesn't look to have a cased base which Andy's does look as though it has - I would never have recognised that as being the same range :-\  good job I don't collect Whitefriars I guess  :)
m
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on January 25, 2012, 10:39:07 PM
Interesting comments, and many thanks to all, i had a good look at the aforementioned New Studio range, and expected the comparisons. I very much appreciate all the input from more experienced WF collectors than me, but no way is it a Kingfisher
overlay on a Ruby body, so the experimental version is favourite in my humble opinion at the moment, but i look forward to
more contributions, I love the fact that Whitefriars history and production is so well researched and documented , and
continues to be so. Ive just checked , and i see Lesley Jacksons book was published in 1996 ! So much more must have
been learned since then.
I will certainly pop it on WF.com , and link it to this thread. Im hoping it will be fun finding out a bit more, and creating a
bit of good light hearted debate.
Maybe its TK Maxx or M & S ,  ;D Its all great fun
Cheers all,
Andy
 :smg:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: glassobsessed on January 25, 2012, 10:49:38 PM
Quite, that does not look like it is trailed (strapped), looks more like silver chloride has been run around and around (inside or outside?) changing the colour of the ruby glass.

John

Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on January 25, 2012, 11:01:25 PM
John,
its as smooth as a babys bottom  :thup:  inside and out ! The pattern is right in the centre of the Ruby .

Bedtime now.
I must try not to post after the pub!

 :sleep:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: jimbo1 on January 25, 2012, 11:05:12 PM
It's Whitefriars new studio ruby with kingfisher overlay 100%, these vases were all individual and are all very different. They were designed as studio pieces. These vases have no strapping like the amber version all the colours are cased within the body.

Will take a picture of mine and post tomorrow.

Look at the bottom of this page, it show 2 ruby/kingfisher vases

http://www.whitefriarsorg.org/a5-galleries/a5f-circa/PaulandChristina.htm



James
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: flying free on January 25, 2012, 11:20:36 PM
James, did some of them have visible casing at the bottom then and some not? or is it just an odd picture in the catalogue that some look to have a thick cased bottom and others dont?  I find all catalogues quite hard to work out  :-\ when comparing to the real thing,  especially when they are in black and white (and worse when they are drawings rather than pics even)
Andy - whatever it is, it's very beautiful.
m
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on January 25, 2012, 11:39:20 PM
Thanks m  ;)
James , i must admit, i can see a certain vague similarity  ::) 

I very much appreciate the information, and id love to see your photos.
Look forward to it. Bed now, cricket and tennis to watch early in the morning.

 :sleep:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on January 26, 2012, 12:02:32 AM
I have seen a couple over the last twenty years or so but not in that colour i know its right because Ray Annenberg was with me at the time and if anyone knows he does , i believe at least one was mostly tangerine or amber , they were a problem to make and i think some turned out a bit naff .
.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Lustrousstone on January 26, 2012, 07:18:50 AM
James looks to be right IMHO and the shape fits other Studio range pieces. It's very nice Andy
http://www.whitefriarsorg.org/a5-galleries/a5f-circa/Image31.jpg
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on January 26, 2012, 07:39:06 AM
Well James is a Starr on that range . boom boom . :ooh:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chriscooper on January 26, 2012, 08:08:09 AM
James looks to be right IMHO and the shape fits other Studio range pieces. It's very nice Andy
http://www.whitefriarsorg.org/a5-galleries/a5f-circa/Image31.jpg
 

 :pb:  Think I will keep this on it fit's so well.
Andy I was just trying to let you down gently  ;D
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on January 26, 2012, 09:05:15 AM
Morning all,
please dont worry at all about letting me down, the piece came with other items at auction , including handpainted
Coalport, so i got a really really good deal!  ;D
Very happy that its a quite uncommon example, and i would be interested if James or Ray have any idea of how big the
production was ?? Would that be documented?
Am i right then, that the information in the book, is a little off the mark? As i said 1996 is quite a while ago, and more
information is always appearing.
Its a lovely piece, i will enjoy owning it for a while, but you may find it popping out onto a certain auction site sometime
in the future, as it deserves a more permanent home with some of its mates!  ;D
Thanks again to all,
fascinating stuff
Andy
 8)
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: jimbo1 on January 26, 2012, 10:24:18 AM
Morning All,

Thanks John and Chris... ;)

Below is a picture of my 9886 in Ruby and Kingfisher. Will dig out the 9882 at the weekend.

Hopefully you can see the pattern Ruby body with Kingfisher and silver chloride pulled through. Also, seeded bubbles within the pattern.

I'm not sure how many were made, I don't think the work books exist from this time but I guessing less than 200 for the range (Just a guess). The 9886 seems to be the most common I sold one on a well know auction website in November for £140.




Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 26, 2012, 10:45:33 AM
I don't care what wfs official name for it is, it really doesn't look as if there's any Kingfisher blue in any of these.
The effects look to be purely those of silver chloride, which also produced the bubbles - they're not seeded.
 >:D

Is the problem whether or not it is one of two differing experimental or small ranges? I'm not quite following the discussion.
I only have the Lesley Jackson book, and my eyes can't cope with trawling the catalogues, especially when the images don't always show the items clearly.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on January 26, 2012, 11:01:50 AM
Well Sue, you know your Silver Chloride!  ;)
Thanks James, all very interesting.

Maybe a mod should now move to British Glass, without the 'experimental' in the title.  :thup:

Suns shining , looks great in it! Heres a couple more photos.
Cheers Andy
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: glassobsessed on January 26, 2012, 11:09:22 AM
However they were made they are lovely and the first bit of modern Whitefriars that I would be covet.

John
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on January 26, 2012, 11:10:30 AM
I have just spoken with Ray he confirmed Baxter designed them Ray actually made them and can only remember making two or three in ruby . So from the horses mouth .
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 26, 2012, 11:14:38 AM
John, I coveted first.  :P
Yup, this and a Peter Wheeler Peacock are the only bits of wfs I require.
(though I do need some nice Powell blue straw opal)
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: jimbo1 on January 26, 2012, 11:17:51 AM
The Whitefriars catalogues are not brilliant especially the later ones. They were struggling at this time and I don't think they had the money to spend.

I have added a picture below showing a number of the later studio designs for future reference.

The later stuff is so under appreciated, everybody wants the textured stuff. I think these are some of the best.

James
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 26, 2012, 11:26:49 AM
Is the one on the far left a Peacock?
I keep reading that it was made using kingfisher blue - this, if it is peacock, is the only one I've seen which doesn't have a decidedly-green-and-absolutely-not-kingfisher bottom part.

So is the conclusion that Andy's piece is the Baxter experimental range of the '70s or some studio range, or some experimental thing otherwise not defined in Lesley Jackson?
What was the doubt in the first place?
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: jimbo1 on January 26, 2012, 11:40:18 AM
Yes, one on the left is a Peter Wheeler Peacock vase.

Conclusion for Andy's vase is:

Pattern No: 9882 from the 1978 New Studio Range (Ruby with Kingfisher overlay)

Rare vase but not experimental
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on January 26, 2012, 12:01:03 PM
Thanks again .
How nice that Ray Annenberg actually made it ! As i had the pleasure of meeting him and Patrick at a local auction,
and took them home for a coffee while waiting to settle up with their purchases. A rare Elephant and other
animals i think it was.

Fascinating stuff  :hiclp: :hiclp: :hiclp:

Andy
 :hug:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: flying free on January 26, 2012, 12:11:16 PM
James that is a fantastic display!  I now covet some Whitefriars as well  :mrgreen:
m
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 26, 2012, 12:34:13 PM
Can Ray confirm or refute the notion that kingfisher strapping was used to introduce the silver chloride, or if it was sliver chloride on its own used on the surface of the ruby, or if it was intruduced vis another colour of glass strapping?

I really am completely unconvinced there is any kingfisher in it. No matter what the catalogues state.

Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on January 26, 2012, 01:17:43 PM
Just a thought , JP , if you do talk to Ray again, ask him if he knows Colin Grinham.
Hes the name on this link, who said he bought it when he worked at WF in the 70s, and was told there were only 2 made,
and they were experimental, and never went into production,

http://www.whitefriarsorg.org/a3-messages/a3a-msg-2001/messages.htm
I found the old link whilst googling, from 2001.

Ray might be interested.
Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on January 26, 2012, 01:37:25 PM
Ray doesnt have a computer but when i see him again i will let him look in and i am sure he will answer all the questions . he may be away this weekend so next week probably .
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on January 26, 2012, 01:53:02 PM
Thanks JP  :thup:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chriscooper on January 26, 2012, 04:45:53 PM
Sue said " It's a Baxter experimental piece that never went into production it's shown in the Jackson book page 143
Chris said " 9882? a production piece which appeared in the 1978 catalogue, so no catalogues to search trawl through Sue, I gave Andy the link to the 1978 catalogue page and you to the photo in the Jackson book the only issue really is fairly straight forward which one is it?
A world of difference between an experimental range with a hand full being made and a catalogued production run albeit when Whitefriars were in desperate trouble and struggling to turn things round, hence my comment about letting you down gently Andy  ;D and subtly guiding you towards the latter.
Jp I think we need to clear a couple of points up and make sure Ray knows which range we are discussing, I can well see only a hand full of the original experimental pieces being made in ruby bit the later range no way I  have seen lot's of these in ruby over the years in the various shapes.
Which would make a world of difference in a couple being made or a couple of hundred.
Sue said " what was the doubt in the first place"  you telling Andy it was a rare experimental Baxter piece probably  :wsh:

Chris :pb:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 26, 2012, 04:59:29 PM
I've seen quite a few over the years, I know they're not that scarce. I was only quoting the Jackson book - in which the pictures are about as clear as mud.
Ther do not seem to be any images of the more common studio range in the Jackson book at all.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chriscooper on January 26, 2012, 05:17:37 PM
Sue, the ones in the Jackson book are really rare, not a word I use often, as per the number made the later ones in the catalogue link not so and appear from time to time for sale.

Chris :sun:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: jimbo1 on January 26, 2012, 05:34:21 PM
They will not have been hundreds and hundreds of these made, these were expensive to make and as we know Whitefriars were in financial trouble in 1978. The cut crystal ranges were paying the bills not the textured or studio pieces.

The problem with saying you have seen loads is where have you seen them, if its Ebay or auction houses they could be the same ones going round in circles.




James
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chriscooper on January 26, 2012, 05:47:04 PM
Sorry mate, just a figure of speech to try and get the two ranges in context  :-[ two hundred seems to have a 'ring' to it and appeared to go well with two Lol
Are you going to Wetherby on Saturday, roll on York but having said that probably had my worst year ever last year, could do with Gary 'goldenballs' to get a job where he has to work every Saturday.

Chris
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: vidrioguapo on January 26, 2012, 05:59:01 PM
About 5 or 6 years ago,  Patrick Hogan bought one of these. ( I can even remember where he bought it - Kingston upon Thames ) If my memory serves me well it was discussed on the Whitefriars forum, and for one reason or another it was decided it was Mdina!  Perhaps JP you can jog Patrick's memory and see what he has to say about this matter, perhaps if he still has photographs, he can show them for  comparison purposes.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: jimbo1 on January 26, 2012, 06:16:20 PM
No problems Chris, I'll be at Wetherby Saturday, need to get there early to beat you though ;D

Was with Gary Tuesday - he was busy buying Troika the traitor but he did find some nice Mdina pieces couple of weeks back.

Hopefully see you there for a coffee, I think Dave is coming too.

James

Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Patrick on January 27, 2012, 04:19:39 PM
About 5 or 6 years ago,  Patrick Hogan bought one of these. ( I can even remember where he bought it - Kingston upon Thames ) If my memory serves me well it was discussed on the Whitefriars forum, and for one reason or another it was decided it was Mdina!  Perhaps JP you can jog Patrick's memory and see what he has to say about this matter, perhaps if he still has photographs, he can show them for  comparison purposes.

Hi Emmi,
 Yes this was thought to be WF but turned out to be somewhere else............... Will try and find the thread. Here is the pic.of the vase.

(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/bargiepat/Randomstrapstudiocopy.jpg)

Regards,
              Patrick.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 27, 2012, 04:36:23 PM
Yup, Mdina.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: vidrioguapo on January 27, 2012, 04:42:19 PM
Ah yes, Patrick,, it is very different from the one being discussed on here.  I had thought yours was more similar, but my memory failing me again!
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on January 27, 2012, 10:28:55 PM
Hi Patrick whats your view on the one at the start of this thread , anything to add ?
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: nigel benson on January 28, 2012, 02:39:53 PM
Hello,

My goodness what a storm in a tea cup!

The person who has been talking most sense is jimbo1.

The vase you have Andy is from a range that went into production albeit probably a small one. It is a design from a series of different shapes using this colour way by Geoffrey Baxter.

It is NOT experimental.

I have seen more examples of this particular vase over the years than it is quoted that Ray made, so either Ray is remembering a little incorrectly, or other chairs at Whitefriars made 'em  :o In case of confusion, I could even take you to collections that house an example at this moment in time - including one in my kitchen, owned for many years.

Frankly, this thread only illustrates the problem of not having seen something before and not having enough longevity in collecting or dealing to give a fair overview. The pieces in Jackson that are being referred to are indeed experimental and there may be as many as three examples of each. For instance, I have a version of the one in Jackson (plate 170, number 8 on the extreme right) that I bought many years ago before any exhibitions or books were available. However, I later made the mistake of not buying one smaller, similar, only in pink....uuurrrgghhhhh ::)

I understand your questioning the Kingfisher content within these ranges Sue, but I think you will end up being surprised. Pictures are no substitut for handling and living with pieces as you well know ;) :)

I would like to compliment Andy for having the hunch to buy in the first place. Often those little grey cells do work when playing the hunch, but it is then that the research has to begin ;) :) :) For instance going to the Museum of London to go through the records, or even seeing them on W/F's.com (if enough are there, or linked to) in order to determine how many might have been made.

Nigel
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on January 28, 2012, 02:57:03 PM
Hi Nigel i quoted Ray verbatim , can i be there when you tell him he got it wrong . ;D ;) :24: we were only talking about the straight sided one at the top of this thread and in that exact colourway .  :o
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 28, 2012, 03:01:35 PM
As I've said, I've seen a fair number of these over the years, but I've not personally ever handled any.

The"experimental" word being used here arose from my only having the LJ wfs book, which I quoted.
The book does not illustrate any of the production range of ruby with silver chloride, but ONLY the so-called "experimental" bits - (which to my mind are the same design, just a few different shapes.)
I'm not into catalogues and ranges and numbers - I'm into glass and I'm only concerned with how good it looks.

And I think Andy's bit is far nicer than any of the experimental shapes.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: nigel benson on January 28, 2012, 04:04:02 PM
Quote
we were only talking about the straight sided one at the top of this thread and in that exact colourway

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about John. As for Ray, he's a great chap, if questioned he''ll be charitable to me......I'm.......er....sure  :kissy: Gulp!!!!!

Nigel

PS. 'Experimental' is in the title of the thread Sue ;)
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 28, 2012, 04:37:52 PM
Yes, I know. Andy wrote to me, I quoted LJ at him, he put it in the title. It's Lesley Jackson's fault for not showing the production range, only the differently shaped "experimental" ones.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on January 28, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
I hope that kiss is not for me Nigel i dont ride on that bus . GULP . :-[ :huh2:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: nigel benson on January 28, 2012, 05:29:29 PM

Ha Ha  :o
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Patrick on January 28, 2012, 07:19:51 PM
Hi,
 Yes these did go into production but not in large quantities..................  Richard Anderson has one in his collection and I think Peter Elliot has one for sale.
 Maybe over £300.00 if I remember.
 I hope to call into see Ray on my way back to London and will let him see the pic. of the vase and hear his further comments.

All best wishes,
                       Patrick.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chriscooper on January 28, 2012, 09:17:31 PM
Not sure about the workbook line, pretty sure none were kept/made in the turmoil of the latter years cannot find any for Ray's work after 1975, interesting 3 for Boffo '68, '69, and '70.
Apart from that I think Nigel and James between them have pretty much tied it up for you Andy  :24:

Workbooks link with thanks to Julian Knowles at Whitefriars.com

https://picasaweb.google.com/117839260238336349011

Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: flying free on January 28, 2012, 10:51:40 PM
Sorry to butt in here, but that's a curious find for V Boffo - the last date in the Whitefriars workbooks if I have read your link correctly? was June 1970, yet in Mark Hill's book he says

'This had been anticipated before he left England and in October 1969, the team of twelve was joined by Ettore Boffo and his father Vicente (also known as Poppa), who were both experienced blowers from Whitefriars.'

So if it is the same V Boffo, and I assume it is, then either he was working in two places at the same time, or the dates in Mark Hill's book aren't correct...or the entry in the workbook for V Boffo aren't correct.  Or did I miss something somewhere on timelines?
Edited to add...I know nothing about how 'workbooks' work, so is it that they don't represent the output of production for the date in question, but the sales throughput?  In which case I guess they could represent sales of items made at a previous time?  But if they do represent production for that month then my previous questions stand  :)
Further edit...Mark Hill's book page 23 shows a photograph taken from 'Times of Malta' May 12th 1970 with a picture of Michael Harris and Ettore Boffo - perhaps Vicente Boffo joined later?
m
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on January 28, 2012, 11:13:25 PM
Well i wont bovver to aks next time .  :-X :pb:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chriscooper on January 28, 2012, 11:40:19 PM
According to the workbook his last entry was 20th June 1970 if I am reading it correctly m
Maybe  one of the Mdina 'experts' can clear it up I thought they left England for Malta in October 1967 and began producing glass in '68 two years before 'Boffo' left Whitefriars? so that's how much I know :-[ according to the workbook information someone is wrong somewhere probably me ;D

Chris
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: flying free on January 28, 2012, 11:49:14 PM
According to Mark Hill's book they (Michael Harris and familiy) left for Malta in December 1967 and then furnaces were lit at Ta'Qali in late Summer 1968.  Also according to the book they were joined the following year in October 1969 by the Boffo's.
m
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chriscooper on January 28, 2012, 11:57:00 PM
Still at Whitefriars 10 month after he left for Malta then? :-\
Chris
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on January 29, 2012, 10:27:16 AM
Wow , interesting photos from Julian Knowles ! Ive found the whole conversation very interesting and informative all the way through.
Im happy we are all basically singing from the same Hymn sheet, and with the conclusions on my vase. Chris, i put this on about
4 pages ago!


Maybe a mod should now move to British Glass, without the 'experimental' in the title.  :thup:

Cheers Andy


I still think thats a good idea.  Any mods agree with me ?
Nice to talk to so many of you. Might be going off topic a bit with the Boffo chat, I will leave that to others.
Patrick, remember me to Ray. Does he still go to Amersham?
Hope to meet more of you in the future, maybe Birmingham in the Spring.
Cheers for now,
Andy
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: flying free on January 29, 2012, 12:53:36 PM
My fault for not remembering a previous post  a few months ago where Wolfie had been to see Joseph Said and Mr Said had confirmed that Boffo started in 1970
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,41620.msg242700.html#msg242700
The date in Mark Hill's book is therefore probably incorrect?
I will put a cross link post to this thread on that thread as well for future reference.
m
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Patrick on January 31, 2012, 06:19:17 PM
I think we need to clear a couple of points up and make sure Ray knows which range we are discussing,
Chris :pb:

Hi,
 Well I showed the pic. to Ray and he immediately went to his copy of the 1978 catalogue........   " Kingfisher on Ruby with Silver Chloride, they were a production piece and  I possibly made a hundred or more "
 It is trailed with Kingfisher and Silver Chloride and melted in which makes the blue less prominent.
 Regards,
               Patrick.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on January 31, 2012, 06:31:42 PM
Patrick did you ask him what one he only made two or three of because thats what he told me ?
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Patrick on January 31, 2012, 06:37:49 PM
Hi John,
 I did not ask him that because I was worried that would complicate things................   I suspect he may have thought you were talking about another vase maybe.
 All best wishes,
                       Patrick.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on January 31, 2012, 07:00:41 PM
Thats what i dont like about Whitefriars too many contradictions and lack of info .
 :usd:
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: nigel benson on January 31, 2012, 08:15:14 PM
Excellant and useful info :) Many thanks Patrick, and of course, Ray  ;) :)

Nigel
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: chriscooper on January 31, 2012, 08:23:33 PM
Thanks Pat, John do think Ray was maybe referring to the earlier experimental studio vase that were mentioned at the top of the thread? the ones in the Jackson book, I do.

Chris
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on February 01, 2012, 11:01:33 AM
Chris now i am totally confused i asked Ray about the one on the first posting the one where a guy who worked at W/Fs said there were only two made i didnt mention this to Ray so i find it strange Ray said two or three , i described it as a straight sided round vase the shape of a relay baton in ruby with the siver chloride band , Ray said yes i know the one - we - (he and i ) saw one in Amber down at Emsworth a couple of years back i made them but only  two or three were made in that colour  , so i am quite surprised at what Patrick and Nigel are saying to say the least . I rest my case your honour . :spls: :huh2: confused .
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Patrick on February 11, 2012, 04:08:54 PM
Hi,
 Good to see it is currently listed on Ebay.................

GOOD LUCK.

Patrick.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on February 11, 2012, 04:18:31 PM
Thanks Patrick  ;D

I was going to let the board know  ;)

Andy
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Patrick on February 11, 2012, 08:18:21 PM

I was going to let the board know  ;)



Hi Andy,
 Not sure you are allowed to do that..................  the mods might have 'Hobbed' you
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: nigel benson on February 12, 2012, 08:19:17 PM

Hello,

Can't fathom the placing of photos on here so please see below for photo I just came across while looking for something else, showing a similar example, as mentioned in an earlier post by me (along with something a bit special if you're a Whitefriars collector!!):

http://20thcentury-glass.org.uk/id57.html (http://20thcentury-glass.org.uk/id57.html)

Enjoy, Nigel
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Patrick on February 12, 2012, 09:38:22 PM
(along with something a bit special if you're a Whitefriars collector!!):


Is it this your are referring to..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260946900135?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1532.l2649

Regards,
               Patrick.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: nigel benson on February 12, 2012, 10:22:47 PM
No Patrick. Try the turquoise cylinder vase. See another in Jackson, but I seriously doubt elsewhere!! And, I've had quite enough advertising/linking of eBay items for today thanks  ;) :)

Nigel
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Patrick on February 12, 2012, 11:08:24 PM
Hi Nigel,
 Missed that but now I see it I am blown away being an avid collector of Baxter experimental................   Do you still own it ?

Best wishes,
                   Patrick.
Nigel's image.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: johnphilip on February 12, 2012, 11:14:21 PM
I have one in my kitchen Nigel we throw the used teabags in it . ;D
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Anne on February 12, 2012, 11:53:56 PM
Hi Andy,
 Not sure you are allowed to do that..................  the mods might have 'Hobbed' you

Sure you can Patrick, but in the Market Place. :)
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: nigel benson on February 13, 2012, 12:37:36 PM
Quote
being an avid collector of Baxter experimental................   Do you still own it ?

I bought it years before the books and exhibitions of the mid 1990's, and used deduction to work out that it was Whitefrairs. Beyond that, in those days, was purely guesswork. It forms part of my small collection of Studio range pieces, in which I have one example of each to form a super group - all but one bought as a collector. So, I'm much attached to it ;) :)

However, the photo also shows the production piece in ruby and kingfisher, etc. It's my guess that Ray made the experimental pieces in twos or threes, but the production wares were made in considerably larger quantities, as mentioned earlier in the thread. It doesn't matter how sharp our minds are, we've (mostly) all experienced the "....Now what did I come in here for??" routine. Therefore, is it not possible for the wires to get crossed years after an event.........and Ray has become a victim of what we all experience?? Not casting aspersions here I hope you all understand  :o Just thinking out loud  ;) :)

Nigel
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on February 13, 2012, 12:56:48 PM
Turquoise Vase ........   :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Amazing !
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Patrick on February 13, 2012, 12:58:31 PM
Hi Nigel,
 So glad you still have it...............  
 Perhaps one day we can have an exhibition of EXPERIMENTAL pieces at the Cambridge Glass Fair..............  
I want to thank you for offering to exhibit a few of your Wuidart and 1930 catalogue pieces at the fair Sunday 27th February. Terry tells me it is going to be a wonderful display of Whitefriars at their best !

All best wishes,
                     Patrick.
Ps,
   This video from a fair in 2008 shows Ray and the usual suspects including your sales display, well worth a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KThMzNbNEfs
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Patrick on February 20, 2012, 08:25:31 PM
A GREAT RESULT ANDY.................. £243.88
Title: Re: Whitefriars Baxter Experimental Studio Vase c1978 , just showing off!
Post by: Andy on February 21, 2012, 12:44:22 PM
Not bad! Around what i expected, no surprises though.
Interestingly, it had 97 watchers, out of 3800 Art Glass items on ebay, it was the 3rd highest after
2 Tiffany lamps!

 :thup: