Glass Message Board

Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: David555 on February 23, 2006, 01:24:18 AM

Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: David555 on February 23, 2006, 01:24:18 AM
Hi

Bought some more older glass today – Vaseline I think

This vase is a milk white cased in a thin layer of green Vaseline glass, the fringed rim is yellow/green Vaseline and so is the leaf trailing, 5.5” high and with lots of age ware, has a concave pontil that has been very polished.

(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7857/vasil15be.th.jpg) (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vasil15be.jpg)

Two vases here - I don’t know the name for this technique. Again the whole is cased in a thin layer of Vaseline that lines the rim in a very organic fashion. Applied decoration with Vaseline foliage and one perfect blue flower mounted about 1cm away from the surface. This is double cased with an opaque white/yellow to outer and a pink inner that bleeds through. It bleeds through on one vase more than the other as the pink is stronger inside that one, is that a problem for as pair? – 5.25” high with irregular ground pontil to base showing through to a clear white spot

(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/170/vasil25qn.th.jpg) (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vasil25qn.jpg)
(http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/338/vasil48gp.th.jpg) (http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vasil48gp.jpg)
(http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3133/vasil30gh.th.jpg) (http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vasil30gh.jpg)

Thanks


Adam P
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Glassyone on February 23, 2006, 05:18:20 AM
Could they be Boulton and Mills ?
http://home.earthlink.net/~verredart4/glass/EnglishApplique.html
http://www.great-glass.co.uk/library/lib2ae.html

Or Stevens and Williams?
Someone will know, that's an acanthus leaf applied and looks nicely made.
Ruth

Edit, in the rush I forgot to say they are lovely.
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 23, 2006, 07:35:55 AM
I'm rapidly going off you  :evil:  :twisted: teasing us with such lovely things. Stevens and Williams looks a very good bet
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Ivo on February 23, 2006, 07:51:04 AM
Differences in colour serve to underline the unique handmade quality of these rare works and should be considered an asset, not a fault. :D  :D  :D
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Connie on February 23, 2006, 09:33:41 AM
It looks like Ruth nailed the first one.  The link she provided shows what appears to be an identical one identified as Boutlon & Mills.

Ruth - where were you when I needed help with my pieces  :lol:  

I wonder if my pitcher is Boulton & Mills rather than Stevens & Williams  :?:

http://www.grayhorseglass.com/items/354848/item354848store.html#item
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Leni on February 23, 2006, 10:13:10 AM
I love these David!   :shock: (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/1194.gif)  The blue flowers on the pair of pink-lined vases are particularly nice!   :shock:  :D

Like much of the Stourbridge vaseline, the acanthus leaves were done by quite a few people and sometimes they are difficult to pin down to a particular glasshouse.  What are the bases / pontil marks like?  

I have a couple of these applied work vases, and the mine with an acanthus leaf is definitely Stevens & Williams (because of the flower prunt on the pontil), but they were also made 'on the continent'.  You will notice even Great Glass only attributes most of the applied work as 'English' and some of that with a question mark!   :shock:  :roll:
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Bernard C on February 23, 2006, 11:50:16 AM
What lovely glass — I am most envious.

This style is very difficult to attribute accurately.   Narrowing it down a little, I understand that the style was not made by Powell / Whitefriars, so it is reasonable to describe it as "Stourbridge", if, like Hajdamach, you include Walsh and Smart Brothers, both only a few miles from Stourbridge, in that classification.

Hadjamach had great difficulty finding fully attributable examples, only showing examples by Stuart and S&W, including a further example decorated with S&W's Mat-Su-No-Ke flowers.   Reynolds has published a photograph of a Walsh example in his collection, marked with Rd. No. 74556 (see also p22 of the Thompson supplement, bound in with the main volume in recent printings).    Apart from these no other published example (print or Internet) known to me has included any reasonable explanation of the basis of attribution, and that includes the example attributed to S&W on the back cover of Newby, my only criticism of this otherwise excellent book, although I believe this particular attribution to be correct because of the similarity of the flower with the marked example in Hajdamach.

Further evidence of confusion is that such unsubstantiated attributions tend to vary according to whether the item is in the USA or Britain, with the authorities in the two countries having their own particular favourites.

Like Leni, above, I understand that these styles were also made elsewhere in Europe.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: David555 on February 23, 2006, 04:05:21 PM
Thank you everyone for your responses

Boutlon & Mills looks good from photo shown by Ruth - especially the base.

Thanks Ivo and Bernard and everyone else with your input on the two applied work vases - I agree that there being slight differences only goes to show the hand made quality.

So Stourbridge, or somewhere within that region - but keeping my mind open to a continental maker.

The blue, pink and yellow remind me of majolica pottery!!!

Great stuff to go on - any more visits to this dealer and I will be joining the Vaseline glass board LOL - I do like such pieces and must get some black light for the shelves where they sit.

My collecting has always been 1920's on with an emphasis on 1960s - so this is new exciting territory for me.

Adam P :P  :P
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 23, 2006, 07:05:55 PM
I think the jury is still out on the jug, Barrie Skelcher (Big Book of Vaseline Glass) would probably say, probably Stevens and Williams and the Earthlink site has no Stevens and Williams at all to compare with
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: David555 on February 23, 2006, 11:31:25 PM
Hi Christine

I have much to learn - the jug on the link http://home.earthlink.net/~verredart4/glass/EnglishApplique.html looks exactly the same as mine and calls it Boulton & Mills - are you saying S&W did a jug the same (give me 1930s 'Candy Stripe' please LOL) - the size is different, the one on the earthlink site is taller - I am realising that these factories made almost identical items in 1890s, almost as bad as 1960s LOL.

For my second items (vases) what do you think - again there are comparible pieces on earthlink by Boulton & Mills?

I don't know how reliable the attributions on this site are :?

Thanks

Adam P
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Glassyone on February 24, 2006, 04:10:02 AM
Adam!, Cyril Manley's book 'Decorative Victorian Glass' is a good resource. He is not always right as members of this Board have pointed out to me in previous threads. He does have a lot to say about these firms and gives many examples of their work.

I was in a rush last night as it was my birthday and my son was cooking dinner.
On page 25 of his book he says that 'some of the articles produced by these firms are so much alike that it took me years to discover how to separate them. I finally acheived it by using ultraviolet light' ---but does not say how!! Not on that page anyway. And I'm not sure that would be reliable.

Connie, I'm a rank amateur who is mostly wrong and occasionally correct or partly so. I am just developing the impression that the details of B and M applique may be more detailed and 'controlled' than S and W , that could be rubbish and as for all the other firms, well that's beyound me yet!
Best wishes for more info to come for you both.
R
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 24, 2006, 07:56:16 AM
I'm not really saying anything. It's just that in Skelcher's book, Boulton and Mills isn't even given a mention and  "In the past fifteen years,..., he has collected and studied nearly 800 pieces of glass coloured with uranium." He uses radioactivity and density to help decide along with old literature and catalogues, etc. He certainly gives similarly styled items as probabaly Stevens and Williams. Perhaps we should ask him to join us, I'll try and email through ebay. It is interesting and odd that the earthlink site doesn't have a single Stevens and Williams piece, and they were one of the big glass houses.

I have two very similar but very different in the small details Stourbridge baskets. I suspect they are different glasshouses, but either looks to be possibly Stevens and Williams. Got to go late for work :oops:  :shock:
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Bernard C on February 24, 2006, 08:08:10 AM
Adam — my apologies — I forgot one glassworks that I should have mentioned as a possible source for your Victorian / Edwardian fancies.

Charles Kempton & Sons, of Lambeth.   See Timberlake.   We know little about their products, except for their amazing trumpet vases and a few rare registered designs.   They were a medium sized glassworks (by comparison with the Stourbridge factories), and by 1886, when they launched their trumpet vases, they were as highly skilled in both decorative techniques and the use of colour as the Stourbridge glassworks.

I think it is reasonable to include Kempton into the general term "Stourbridge".    Note that both Hajdamach and Reynolds were published before Timberlake.

Hope that helps.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: David555 on February 24, 2006, 03:24:54 PM
Thanks Ruth & Christine

Your joint interest and input has been both informative and generous - I agree with the authors comment 'some of the articles produced by these firms are so much alike that it took me years to discover how to separate them.

Bernard - thank you for the extra name, along with your other post I feel very well informed and I love pieces of glass that are good, can be pinned down to a general area, but remain a mystery in terms of maker. It is something I can get my teeth into from time to time, it's nice to get a name straight away, but it is fun to get clues and play detective - research in another word  :lol:  :?  :cry:  :lol:  :?  :idea:  :P

Adam P
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 27, 2006, 08:08:46 PM
I thought I would show you my two baskets, both creamy white uranium glass with amber trim and handles. Seen separately you might think, different design, same stable, but I think different stables. Everything is different about them. Click to enlarge.

(http://photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/th_baskets1.jpg) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/baskets1.jpg)(http://photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/th_baskets2.jpg) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/baskets2.jpg)(http://photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/th_baskets3.jpg) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/baskets3.jpg)
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: David555 on February 27, 2006, 09:12:26 PM
Lovely pieces Christine

I agree, the crimped edge is so similar and the colour of trim and handle is almost identical. These seem to be across the board techniques many Stourbridge factories had in common.

When you look closer as you suggest, I can see the width of the trim is different and the main body of each piece seems not only different in colour but also in technique - this is very subtle and not unlike my two vases where the inner colour bleeds through more (difficult as they are from the same factory), however the depth and sharpness seems different, this is best seen in the bases, your taller basket has sharper lines and a more defined pontil not unlike my single vase – that seems the key factor if you were to dispute over manufacture – to my untrained eye at least.

I don't know enough about the handle techniques, I guess many were interchangeable from factory to factory - the 'thorny' handle on the first is my favourite (so naturalistic), even though I have cut myself on some elaborate pieces in the past  :roll:  

Do you have any ideas on attribution, I have looked at 100s of pieces in the last few days in my books and get 'Victorian Vaseline Vase/Basket/Bowl, Epergne'....ahhhhhhhhh – named attributions seem a bit unsafe unless there is a label or mark.

Thanks


Adam P
Title: Some new Vaseline Glass - ID needed
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 01, 2006, 07:42:59 AM
I must admit I haven't looked far to find an attribution. Even the amber glass on them is a different shade of brown. I too like the thorny handle but the other one is my favourite, it's much richer looking - I always think of one as being skimmed and the other full fat - if that analogy makes sense