Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on December 05, 2011, 12:09:17 PM
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most of the older brigade will doubtless recognize this - although it's missing the most significant part (which would give the game away immediately), and which would have sat atop the brass plated cap thingy. Spherical, and about 3"/75mm high - dull brownish/olive colour, with quality ground and polished concave pontil mark, with controlled bubbled decoration; and although bubbles appear to spiral upward, believe in fact they just encircle the object which, incidentally, is hollow. Bearing in mind, perhaps, the lack of importance given to most advertising ephemera of the mid C20 (at the time), then I guess most examples of this item would have been binned or chucked out long ago - I don't recall having seen another. There is a single word logo and trade mark symbol around the base of the metal cap - which will be obvious to those who do recognize the item.
All of which is simply a lead up to the question, which is, in view of the bubbles and pontil mark, was this item made by a well known manufacturer - whose wares are much collected and often in gold/amber - ruby, willow, sapphire and twilight - or am I barking up the wrong tree?? ;) thanks for looking.
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Parker pen holder, innit?
Looks like WF's 'Willow' colour.
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quite right, of course, and I was fairly sure it was from the W/Fs. stable - but wasn't too sure of which colour it might have been. It has the word Parker on the metal lid, plus their logo of the oval with bisecting arrow. I don't know for how long these were produced, but assume it was maybe a little post 1945. Anyone got the pen please :)
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Hi Paul, think the fountain pen is the Parker 51 also in biro form, according to the work books first made in 1960 by Ronnie Wilkinson,
Seen quite a few ruby, arctic blue, ocean green, twilight and amber? sure they may have been more but cannot recall one in willow.
Also did an ashtray........
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eG5XHZ1uVCg/TdEpLo8-WhI/AAAAAAAALig/lUuKIt7OiMQ/s640/SDC14730.JPG
Chris
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thanks Chris - and am sure you are correct that all this was geared towards their 51 model, which was the iconic and, probably, the most popular Parker. I've assumed that my 'ball' was an advertising item, but in view of your ashtray looking a lot more practicable and genuinely useful, then maybe mine is a retail item also. Are you saying that both of these were items that could be purchased simply as desktop sundries for the office executive (nothing to do with advertising at all). Just a shame that I don't have the pen.
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I don't they were advertising items, just branded.
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Pretty sure the general consensus is they were commissioned for Parker for their employees maybe Christmas gifts and maybe also gifts to retailers? and never catalogued?
On a similar theme they also did lighters and ashtrays for Ronson have you seen one?
http://www.whitefriars.com/bb_orig/viewtopic.php?t=4142&highlight=ronson
Not got a photo of the lighter but here is the ashtray.
http://i45.tinypic.com/fedht3.jpg
Chris
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thanks to all for the help. :)
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Hi Paul it may be twylight , but i am not good with colours , i am sure Emmi will know.
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I don't believe I've seen twilight in the flesh - although looking at Leslie Jackson the impression I get is that it lacks the slight greenish brown of willow - which is perhaps what you'd expect anyway. From the book twilight appears to be a shade of charcoalish without any other hue - a kind of slightly pale version of Dartington midnight maybe.
Yes, I'd expect Emmi to have a much better answer, if she can hear us ;)
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The pen holder looks to be twilight on my monitor. I have the complete sets of pen holders and ashtray pen holders in twilight, ocean green, arctic blue and ruby. I have yet to ever see these products made by Whitefriars for Parker in any other colours than stated. But then I never thought to come across a 10.5" cased green 9620 jug either. So possible but highly unlikely.
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1960 brought forth a colour change at Whitefriars. Introducing ocean green and arctic blue. 1961 Parker pens introduced the model 61 which is the common pen used in the paperweight pen holders and ashtray holders. Previously the model 51 was used and introduced at Parker in 1941. Willow wasn't introduced at Whitefriars until 1965. Oddly though, I have never seen any paper advertisement for Parker Pens using either the paperweight pen holder or ashtray model.
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hello James, and thanks for your edifying and very interesting information - and a big welcome to the GMB by the way. :) Unfortunately, I don't have access to a piece of willow just now, and twilight is a bit of a new one on me. Looking again at this round piece I might have taken a guess and said willow - somehow it doesn't seem to be what I'd expect twilight to look like, but I'm a bit of an ignoramus on these W/Fs. colours, so will stand corrected by whatever the experts say. As we all know, colours on the screen are not always faithful to how they look in the flesh.
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Hi James welcome to the madhouse glad you agree with twylight thats good enough for me , i will sort your sticks out in the morning!!! sorry for the delay but you did say no rush , love to Charlene your old mate John AKA - JP
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Hi John, Good to know John, Thank you. Hi Paul, believe me Paul I am far from a expert but more a madman for Whitefriars glass. In describing the colour twilight I say hold it up to the light and it will have a slight muddy brown tinge to it. The colour silver is often confused with twilight but silver to me has a clean hard cold steel look. It also doesn't hurt to cross check the work books, price list and catalogues, because there have been cases where a item and or colour was omitted from one or another. The work books give the best indication as to what was produced for that year.
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https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xtnwJaZPrrU/Tt8dI5EQ2VI/AAAAAAAAU2A/RUvJoet0Cy0/s512/SDC12180.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lMkgaeujBFk/Tt8cByju9EI/AAAAAAAAU10/qslkuKSG_SY/s576/SDC14439.JPG
Hambone willow, paperweight twilight
Chris
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thanks again Chris, your pix are very helpful, and yes, I will go with twilight. James' comments about 'slightly muddy brown tinge' do seem to best describe this one.
Many thanks to all for their help.
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I agree, definitely Twilight (I have one of the pen holders in Twilight, with the fountain pen and one in Ruby with the biro). But I should point out that, unlike most Whitefriars colours, which are very true to colour and if you get to know them can be used to identify WF items, there are two definitely different version of Twilight! Here are pictures of an obvious difference in the same vase - a 9364 thick walled vase designed by William Wilson. As you can see, one is a more greeny version and one a more browny version of Twilight.
Also, I have observed that the Ruby and the Twilight pen holders were made in a different mould, as the Ruby has the lines of bubbles going up and down, whereas in the Twilight they go round. I would be interested to know which way the bubbles go in the other colours, James! (And welcome, by the way! :kissy: )
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on reflection, the subject title will be of no use to people doing a search in the future - so, grateful if the mods will please change to something like...'Whitefriars Parker Pen Displays', or similar. thanks :)
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Hi Leni,On my pen holders ruby goes round and round with very small tightly packed bubbles and the other colours go up and down at a angle of say 2 0'clock and not nearly as tight as the ruby. I find it strange that these or the ashtrays were never made in amber. James.
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Here is a example of a ruby that I would call has the up and down bubbles. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEAUTIFUL-WHITERFRIARS-RUBY-RED-PARKER-PEN-HOLDER-PEN-/180767431844?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D4735914900075541115
Now the above example is what all my other coloured pen holders look like. Where as my ruby has a tight round and round trail of bubbles. Exactly the opposite of Leni's.
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The other style from a different mould does it look sea?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Early-Whitefriars-Glass-Parker-Pen-Paperweight-/290557639931
Thought this was a good price for a 61 pen?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250949126044?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Chris
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From the known colours and time period I would venture to say this is ocean green. I have never seen examples of sea green or sapphire blue with these Parker sets, only arctic blue and ocean green. But...that's not to say there was not any made, only that I have yet to find any evidence of it. And to be honest I am getting old and not everything works as well as it did for me in my 20's. :cry: James.
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Unlikely you will find these in Sapphire, Amber or Sea Green as those colours were discontinued in 1960 (officially) and the Parker/Whitefriars collaboration was a bit later after that date. Not sure exactly when but am assuming around 1965?
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Oops - colour confusion was my fault. Brain thought "Twilight", but my fingers came up with "Willow".
Well, they've both got 'wil' in them... :-[
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may I make a gentle reminder - see my earlier request - that the subject title is changed to assist future searches. thanks :)
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Hi,
Interesting topic.................. I have a 'Waterman' pen combined with a Whitefriars square ashtray, the only example I have ever seen but I am sure there must be others around ( maybe in colours )
Regards,
Patrick.
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may I make a gentle reminder - see my earlier request - that the subject title is changed to assist future searches. thanks :)
Paul, please use the Report to Moderator function to make such a request then it won't be overlooked. Mods don't always get to read every topic straight away. Ta. :)
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thanks - noted :)