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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Anne on September 22, 2005, 12:44:16 AM

Title: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Anne on September 22, 2005, 12:44:16 AM
Can anyone identify the maker of this please?

Pink round roses:
http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-624
http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-623
http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-622
I've seen another of the pink roses bowl but in blue and that was stated to be Jobling.

Not marked in any way. Any info as to maker/age would be welcome, thanks!
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Tony H on September 22, 2005, 05:37:10 AM
Hi Anne
I would agree the pink one could very well be a Jobling Lambton Bowl I have attached a link to a scan from a Jobling Catalogue, mine is a copy also, hope you can read it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/d554to/Joblingbowls.jpg

An advert for this style of Art glass by Jobling appeared in PGG in 1933.

I have a few pieces from this range, new project, to photo them for my album.

Tony H in NZ
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Bernard C on September 22, 2005, 06:27:16 AM
Quote from: Anne
... Not marked in any way. ...
Anne — perhaps you should have written "Not ... appears to be marked in any way."

As for the Jobling Lambton bowl, Rose pattern, #11000, if it is the 13" table centre, I can't remember where the mark is.   If the fruit bowl size, it is marked in one of the gaps in the decoration near the base in two lines something like "REG NO." / "787872".   Sometimes this is so faint as to be very difficult to see, but it is always there.   It is not orientated to the bowl, but to fit the space.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Anne on September 22, 2005, 01:41:51 PM
Tony, thank you! That does look like it but mine is smaller... 8.5" not 13". I look forward to seeing your other bowls too.

Bernard, thank you. I've looked again at the pink bowl and there is absolutely nothing... with naked eye, hand magnifier and large fresnel magnifier... nothing, nada, zilch. :( I've even held it it before a strong light and looked all over it from both sides and still nothing. If it makes a difference, this one is 8.5" diameter and 3.5" high. The other one I saw like it in blue (on eBay) is said to be marked 'Regd Appd For' but mine hasn't even got that. :(

Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 25, 2005, 10:16:47 AM
:D:D:D
The pink bowl is the same as my Jobling lampshade, which is marked with a registered number. (REG No. 735872 - I think. Hard to read inside-out!)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/a10.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/a9.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/a8.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/a6.jpg
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Bernard C on September 25, 2005, 10:35:47 AM
Hi Sue,

Try 787872.   I think that you will find that it fits.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Leni on September 25, 2005, 01:28:33 PM
I believe I'm right in thinking than they were made to be used either as lampshades or fruit bowls, depending on whether fittings were added or not!  :shock: Am I right, Bernard?  

Leni
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Anne on September 25, 2005, 09:51:15 PM
Leni, it seems there are two sizes of the rose bowl as well as two uses for it. My bowl is 8.5" diameter whereas the one in Tony's catalogue pic is 13".

Sue. how big is your lampshade? I'd guess the larger size - is that right?
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 26, 2005, 10:02:13 AM
:D:D:D
Yes, 13".
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Bernard C on September 26, 2005, 06:09:58 PM
Unfortunately the original material I have seen on Jobling does not indicate whether or not they supplied either bowl with fittings, or even whether they drilled the large bowl, although I am sure they did.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Anne on November 01, 2005, 02:36:39 AM
An update on my Jobling pink bowl - the bowl and I (and my dear OH) met Bernard on Sunday at Harrogate and the bowl was closely inspected by Bernard. He now agrees with me that mine has no visible marks, and confirmed it is a Jobling Lambton bowl.

Interestingly, Bernard had a blue version on his stall at which we also looked, and that one had a very feint, indecipherable mark. It seems the frosting process has obliterated the mark on my bowl, but at least I do now know where the mark should be!
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Bernard C on November 01, 2005, 07:00:21 AM
Quote from: "Anne"
I've looked again at the pink bowl and there is absolutely nothing... with naked eye, hand magnifier and large fresnel magnifier... nothing, nada, zilch. I've even held it it before a strong light and looked all over it from both sides and still nothing. If it makes a difference, this one is 8.5" diameter and 3.5" high. The other one I saw like it in blue (on eBay) is said to be marked 'Regd Appd For*' but mine hasn't even got that.

An update on my Jobling pink bowl - the bowl and I (and my dear OH) met Bernard on Sunday at Harrogate and the bowl was closely inspected by Bernard. He now agrees with me that mine has no visible marks, and confirmed it is a Jobling Lambton bowl.

Interestingly, Bernard had a blue version on his stall at which we also looked, and that one had a very feint, indecipherable mark. It seems the frosting process has obliterated the mark on my bowl, but at least I do now know where the mark should be!

*More likely 'REGN APPD FOR' as on my blue example (from memory), and it is faint but it is all there, just about.

Anne's fine pink example is very crisp, so it must be an early pressing, predating the 'REGN APPD FOR' examples.   It has not lost its mark — it never had one.   This is a new variant to me.   ... and my apologies to Anne for being so doubtful.  :oops:

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Anne on November 01, 2005, 07:02:21 PM
No apologies needed Bernard, I can quite see from the feintness of the mark on your bowl that there could have been some similar feintness on mine. Whether it was never there or has been lost with the frosting, we shall never know, but it's nice to know where it should be, so if I find other bowls I can check them. :)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Anne on May 25, 2007, 10:53:39 PM
Just as an update to the pnk Jobling bowl discussion, Angela had a really good look at the bowl whilst she was here on Monday and she, like Bernard, could not find any trace of a mark on it anywhere, which surprised her immensely.
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Mosquito on May 28, 2007, 03:38:14 PM
I wouldn't be hugely surprised by the lack of a mark; of the three small rose bowls I've had through my hands recently, only one was marked 'Reg App' (strangely no 'for' and different to the mark on Pamela's example). The other two both appeared to be late examples with the fine details on the bottom of the bowl poorly defined and further soften by having been heavily sandblasted, no trace of a mark was visible on either. The 13" rose bowls I have seen have invariably been marked, however.

In fact, I've had quite a few unmarked pieces recently, notably a 7000 bird bowl which was almost certainly an early example as it had the original mould detail and was very crisply moulded, particularly in the birds' tail feathers which tend to show a bumpier 'orange peel' effect on later examples. I also have two 8" flanged 6000 flower bowls, one in opalique and one in black which are completely unmarked.
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Bernard C on May 28, 2007, 05:05:41 PM
Steven — Baker & Crowe tells us that Jet and Pearl were two early trial colours that never really made it into mainstream production.   I am not surprised about the Jet for the Fir Cone and Flower patterns, as the pattern just disappeared.   However, I have seen a Jet Lambton vase which was a fabulous piece, and could have continued in production.   Pearl is more difficult to find;  I have had just two examples, again the medium flower pattern bowl, through my hands.

It is difficult to think of an explanation for the variations in the small rose bowl.   There could have been more than one mould.    Sandblasting and wear do not usually completely remove a punched inscription — there is always some trace of it.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Anne on May 29, 2007, 02:59:56 AM
I think multiple moulds may be the answer. One of the things Angela did say was that on her bowl of the same type the reg no is in a different place to that which Bernard showed me on his bowl. Angela's is near the rim.
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Bernard C on March 04, 2013, 07:21:01 PM
The pink bowl is the same as my Jobling lampshade, which is marked with a registered number. (REG No. 735872 - I think. Hard to read inside-out!)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/a10.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/a9.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/a8.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/a6.jpg

Sue I've just bought a pink one like yours, complete with fittings including a ceiling rose, and properly rewired in old style three-core purple fabric covered flex to a brass lampholder with earth terminal.   Hooks on both the ceiling rose and inside the bowl for maximum flexibility.   The chains are each five links long with figure of eight loops at each end each link is 4" long, square cross section with a loop each end, one split, of silver plated brass.

I can't find a mark on my bowl.   Where is yours marked?

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 04, 2013, 07:51:16 PM
 ;D
You never ask easy questions, Bernard  ;D  it's up at the ceiling!
I got a ladder out, climbed up and craned my neck - (on the wrong side first, obviously!)

When you look at the base, there is an empty circle at the bottom, with two, almost parallel, circles of stems with buds on them. It is situated in the empty space between the two circles.
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Bernard C on March 05, 2013, 09:08:28 AM
Sue Most grateful thanks.   It just hadn't occurred to me that answering my query was going to be so hazardous!

Eventually I found this slightly rough area.   Juggling with the angle of the light, I could just make out either
REG No 787872
or
REG. No. 787872
but that was only because I knew the answer.

What an amazing lighting set.   It's going to cost someone a king's ransom to persuade me to part with it.   Those three roses must be over " thick.

Thanks again, Sue.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 05, 2013, 10:55:49 AM
And thank-you too, Bernard!  :)
While I was up there, I checked my chains and fittings and found them to be of the same design as you describe- so I assume they are the originals too - something I didn't know before (although I suspected it).

Our shade has been in constant use since we bought it - many, many moons ago, from Alsretro's brick and mortar shop here and long before I knew anything about glass at all. It was just an instant "must have" for our home as soon as I laid eyes on it. Michael was less keen, the problem being "pink", but as soon as he saw how well it functions and how good it looks lit (a lot less pink!) he was won over.
I've even bought another (probably French) pink ceiling plafont with roses and a deco design since then, for another room, but it's not nearly as lovely as the Jobling.

Are you going to use yours?
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Bernard C on March 05, 2013, 05:41:19 PM
Are you going to use yours?

Sue Unlikely.   We already have an amazing vintage Holophane spaceship in our back (living) room, and a reasonable quality easy-to-maintain 1980s fitting in the front room, bought and installed by me before I discovered glass.   Also Jobling would be at its best with a slightly higher ceiling ours is only 8' 6" (late Victorian inn yard slum clearance terrace).

It is sat sitting on the table behind me, and every time I look at it the WOW factor increases.    I rarely see such brilliant design.   The last piece I can remember with a similar five star and increasing WOW factor was my Manchester Anvil Inkstand (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,21284.0.html).

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Bernard C on March 06, 2013, 03:00:35 AM
...   While I was up there, I checked my chains and fittings and found them to be of the same design as you describe- so I assume they are the originals too - something I didn't know before (although I suspected it).   ...

Sue I've checked Baker & Crowe and other material I have, and can find no evidence that Jobling added "standard" fittings to their lighting bowls and supplied them wholesale as sets.   I am sure that Jobling supplied the drilled bowls wholesale to lighting specialists who added their own fittings and sold them on, wholesale and/or retail.

As to whether my hooks, chains and ceiling rose are the originals that were supplied and fitted with the bowl in the 1930s, I'm reasonably confident that they are, but I bought them from a lighting specialist, not from a house clearance dealer known to me, so I can't be certain.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 06, 2013, 10:33:51 AM
Our fittings came with the shade when we bought it from Alister. I had to soak all the flower-shaped ferrules and screws in minced onion for a few days to remove the rust and get them all working again.

Some time ago (years) Christine gave me some info. which included a copy of the original sale prices for these shades. When converted for devaluation, they were about a month's wages to buy new. (I don't know where that info. currently is to provide the reference, sorry.)
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 06, 2013, 12:32:49 PM
[Baker and Crowe I think  ;) ]
Title: Re: Pink round bowl with roses - ID = Jobling
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 06, 2013, 12:37:07 PM
Thanks!  :-*

So you should be able to see this for yourself, Bernard. A luxury item indeed.  :)