Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Pinkspoons on January 22, 2006, 09:52:47 PM
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I know they're often all generically thought of as by Holmegaard... but I know they're not. Like this one I've just bought probably isn't.
Any ideas, anyone, about the age/country of origin/maker of this one?
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/35_1_b.jpg)
I'm guessing it dates from 1900-1930. Origin/maker? I'm stumped. I'm not really well versed in that period of Scandinavian glass, but it looks more continental European to me. Just a guess.
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Oh, found this one with a very similarly styled stopper (although the moulding on this one is better than mine - judging by the photographs):
HERE (http://pages.louisvilleantiquemall.com/533/PictPage/1920557455.html)
Coincidence or no?
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Hi,
I thought the following information might be useful here, since you are perfectly right that Kuttrolf decanters are not synonimous with Holmegaard.
McConnell writes this about them in his book The Decanter An Illustrated History of Glass from 1650, on page 151:
"The date of the earliest Kuttrolf is unknown, but multi-necked vessels were made in Syria and Roman Gaul c 400-500. A twist-necked version [no stopper, but wide neck] is illustrated in a 15th century woodcut (plate 214), and a young man is seen drinking from another in van Ratgeb's painting The Last Supper, c1510. The Kuttrolf continued in production throughout the 17th and 18th centuries and enjoyed a popular revival between c1890 and 1930."
On page 416 he goes on to illustrate a number of Kuttrolfs, including three line drawings of Holmegaard and another of a Kastrup, dating from 1923 to 1930. As we know they also produced them in the 1960's and 1970's.
Looking at your one, it seems that the stopper has a different mould pattern to its surface, which concerns me, since I would have expected the stopper to reflect the base. Interestingly the problem occurs on the one shown on the link.
This brings me to a discussion about what I perceive to be to common problem, the swopping and replacement of stoppers on decanters. It is not always easy to tell when this has occurred, but one indication is usually when the base and top don't match, however well they might fit. After all it is easy enough to find a reasonable, or approximate, match and have it ground in - provided that the peg is large enough. Further is is perfectly easy to inscribe a number to the stopper to match that of the body (should there be one).
Of course this can happen within the history of the piece, since stoppers do get lost or misplaced by owners (often when moving) so a replacement might be many years old. However it happens it will effect the commercial value of a piece - but not necessarily its enjoyment.
Nigel :)
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Thank you for the information - I knew vaguely of the Roman origins of the decanter, but none of the rest of it.
I shall have to re-photograph the decanter when it arrives because to my eye the stopper looks like it might have the same pattern as the bod of the decanter. But it is hard to tell.
Also, I don't know if production of Holmegaard kuttrolfs stopped for a while, but they've also been making them sometime within the last 5-10 years, as they pop up on eBay new and boxed every now and then.
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Oh, I forgot to ask - is there any difference between a 1920's/30's Kastrup kuttrolf and a Holmegaard one? I've only seen 1950's Kastrup ones, and they look near-identical to slightly later HG ones.
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Hi,
The illustrations for Holmegaard and Kastrup in McConnell's book on page 461 are only line drawings, so it is not possible to draw accurate conclusions regarding the difference between the two types of Kuttrolfs.
It is noticable that the stopper on the Kastrup one has a shorter shank and the sphere shape of the stopper is a true "O" form, whereas those by Holmegaard have a tapering ball running into a longer shank. However, I would not personally draw too much from this, since it is only from one small period of their history. Furthermore, it is only a small group of examples and, moreover in the drawn form.
Sadly, this is just another connundrum in the world of glass, more particular another within 20th century decanters.
Nigel
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These things are everywhere here! I went to a big collectors market in Utrecht and every other stall, of hundreds, had at least one... Ivo can probably explain this one.
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They don't often come onto fayres in the UK - and when they do the sellers always want £50-100 for the bog-standard ones, and upto £400 for some of the silver-collared ones! :shock:
I've had to buy every one of mine from eBay to acquire them sensibly priced.
Oh, another kuttrolf question.... did Holmegaard make the decanters with the crown-shaped stoppers? I've seen many at fayres and in shops attributed to HG, but never any with labels.
Like so:
(http://i12.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/f5/d6/e9_1_b.JPG)
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Nic, I think so. I seem to remember there being a picture of one of these on the Holmegaard website at one time. They were a commemorative for the coronation or some such, I think.
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Oh, that's great then - I've now two more Holmegaard decanters than I thought. :D
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I recently saw a bent, crown-stoppered decanter in its original Holmegaard box on eBay - hurray. :D
And my decanters have finally arrived - I'm convinced that the stopper for the continental one is original - it's got the same swirly pattern on it, and is dimpled on four sides to mimmick the quatrefoil of the decanter. I'll take a photograph later on.
It looks astonishingly new, though, I have to add. There's some scant wear to the base... but otherwise it's very crisp and bright. Are these still in production, or is it just a good quality piece that someone's cared for over the decades?
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I'm convinced that the stopper for the continental one is original...
:oops: Until I looked more closely. The decanter is etched with a "13" on the rim, and the stopper is etched with a "4". :oops:
But it's just as likely that someone had two of these decanters and accidentally swapped stoppers, isn't it? *fingers crossed*
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the Dansk Glass 1825-1925 book has 8 of these "Klukflaske" in different shapes, sizes and decors (though none in wrythen ribbing) all made around 1900 by Holmegaard, Aalborg and Conradsminde, so it seems to be a rather traditional Danish thing.
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I'll definitely have to source my own copy of this book, it seems very useful. :)
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These things are everywhere here! I went to a big collectors market in Utrecht and every other stall, of hundreds, had at least one... Ivo can probably explain this one.
Sorry Frank I cannot help you to a single specific maker for this generic decanter shape.
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Are they being produced today, as I was surprised to see so many of them at Utrecht. Seemed to be on bookstalls as well as nearly all of the bric-a-brac stalls. Are they made as a container for a specific brand?
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I've seen Holmegaard ones used by several brands - although, unfortunately, I didn't pay any attention at the time as to what they were. :roll:
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To add further to the crown-stopper conundrum... I've just received a plain glass, crown stoppered kuttrolf with a simple silver collar and marked E. Dragsted (a Danish company/silversmith, 1948-1991, who seemed to work predominantly in small jewellery, according to my Googling).
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/dragsteaddecanter.jpg)
Is it likely that the decanter could have been made by Holmegaard and then the decoration applied by Dragsted?
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Is it likely that the decanter could have been made by Holmegaard and then the decoration applied by Dragsted?
To answer my own question.... yes, it is likely. :lol:
I just bought a Per Lutken 'Aristocrat' decanter with an E. Dragsted silver collar.
And it is my last decanter, it really is... until the next one, anyway! I've 23 Holmegaard decanters, and I only use 3 of them... :oops:
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Another kuttrolf maker:
AUCTION (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Karaffe-Glasbruk-Schweden-wie-Holmegaard_W0QQitemZ6622346138QQcategoryZ24234QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Edit: Before the auction vanishes forever, the label on the decanter reads - GLIMMA GLASBRUK, GLIMAKRA, SWEDEN
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I know they're often all generically thought of as by Holmegaard... but I know they're not. Like this one I've just bought probably isn't.
Any ideas, anyone, about the age/country of origin/maker of this one?
Decanter (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/35_1_b.jpg)
Just spotted an identical one with a silver collar marked London 1956.
Thank heaven for British hallmarks. :lol:
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Hi,
Also made by Stolzle, Wien, and seen in a 1939 catalogue. Pattern 851, and again, merely a line drawing.
Regards,
Marcus
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Just to add to the possibilities, these have also been made in Norway by several glassworks for the past three hundred years and are still in production at Hadeland.
Example of a recent type (http://www.hadeland-glassverk.no/hgshop/Main.aspx?cat=258&serie=true)
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Just spotted a kuttrolf on eBay with c.1950s Holmegaard labels (American import) with additional labels, wax-sealed cork stopper and contents of Vencom Strawberry Wine by Funen Wine Co., Odense.
Hopefully I'll win the auction - but it ends in a few days when I'll be away, so it's in the lap of the gods.
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I'd ask them to seal the top with candle wax before posting, easily removed.
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Would hot wax not damage the original wax seal?
It says in the auction spiel that they'll bag the top and wrap an elastic band around it as it looks like the decanter has already been leaking a bit. :(
It's only really just occured to me that I'm wanting to buy this decanter because it has some bits of paper stuck to it that I want to look at more closely. Silly, when you think about it.
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Possibly, candle wax will be softer though, but that is preferable to having dissolved gooey labels. Leaking fluid might also get it confiscated by any postoffice or customs.
I often buy bits of paper too, sometimes with odd bits of glass attached :P
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I know they're often all generically thought of as by Holmegaard... but I know they're not. Like this one I've just bought probably isn't.
Any ideas, anyone, about the age/country of origin/maker of this one?
Decanter (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/35_1_b.jpg)
Just spotted an identical one with a silver collar marked London 1956.
Thank heaven for British hallmarks. :lol:
Doh... And now I've just spotted a pair with silver-mounts dated 1893. So not as cut & dry as I thought. ???