Glass Message Board

Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Malta Glass => Topic started by: robbo on January 28, 2007, 01:11:52 PM

Title: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: robbo on January 28, 2007, 01:11:52 PM
Hi,

I'd like to check whether or not these two pieces are Mdina. Both are Mdina colouring, but unsigned.

Firstly, this little sculpture:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4753 (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4753)
It appears to be similar to those illustrated in Mark Hill's book, pages 34-35, although it sounds like one of the later ones (it's just 10.5cm high).
See also http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230081059949 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230081059949) for a signed one.

Secondly, this textured vase, slightly lop-sided. The base is ground but not enough to remove the broken pontil mark.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4750 (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4750)
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4751 (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4751)
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4752 (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4752)
It looks a similar shape to the mainly brown one illustrated on page 53 of Mark's book, but just c. 18.5cm high.

The blues in both are more 'turquoise' than the photos show.

Many thanks in advance,
Robbo
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: David E on January 28, 2007, 01:23:17 PM
I'd say yes for the first. The colouring, as you say, is very Mdina and I have one similar 'end-of-day' piece myself.

The second I'm unsure about, but Sue M should be able to confirm.
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: robbo on January 28, 2007, 01:49:16 PM
Thanks David,

The sculpture is more greeny turquoise than the photo suggests but still like Mdina.
My camera is useless when it comes to some blues :-\

Robbo
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: Pip on January 28, 2007, 02:05:02 PM
I'd say yes to both of them but the second one is curious in being wonky and having the unfinished base - I wonder if it could have been a second?  Anyway, as David says hopefully the Mdina maestro Sue will take a peek.
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: robbo on January 28, 2007, 03:32:40 PM
I suspect the reason why the base on the second one isn't ground down any more is because there wasn't enough of the clear casing to do so. Mark Hill does say that not all Mdina was signed, especially the earlier pieces but I don't know if that applies throughout the 1970s (he dates the similar brown vase I mentioned to the 70s but post Michael Harris). Stange about the slightly 'boomerang' shape though.

Robbo
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: Pip on January 28, 2007, 05:33:57 PM
My understanding of the signatures is that virtually nothing was signed during Michael Harris' time there (other than the very few pieces he signed with his name) because he didn't allow it and that the pieces with the word 'Mdina' to the bases are post MH.  However, I've not yet seen an early or late piece with the unfinished base that yours has - I have a very early piece with the polished pontil (unsigned), I have several early pieces with the ground flat bases (also unsigned) and I have some later pieces with the ground flat base (signed) but not one with the broken off pontil which is why I suggested it might be a second.
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: Pip on January 28, 2007, 05:41:03 PM
I also wonder how many later pieces weren't signed  ???
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: josordoni on January 28, 2007, 05:45:00 PM
My understanding of the signatures is that virtually nothing was signed during Michael Harris' time there (other than the very few pieces he signed with his name) because he didn't allow it and that the pieces with the word 'Mdina' to the bases are post MH.  However, I've not yet seen an early or late piece with the unfinished base that yours has - I have a very early piece with the polished pontil (unsigned), I have several early pieces with the ground flat bases (also unsigned) and I have some later pieces with the ground flat base (signed) but not one with the broken off pontil which is why I suggested it might be a second.

However just because it isn't signed doesn't mean that Michael Harris had anything to do with the design, as Ron at Artius kindly reminded me.   8)
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: Pip on January 28, 2007, 05:50:40 PM
However just because it isn't signed doesn't mean that Michael Harris had anything to do with the design, as Ron at Artius kindly reminded me.   8)

Did I say it did  ???  Quite the contrary in fact if you read my statement again.  Don't start Lynne  ;D
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: josordoni on January 28, 2007, 06:48:43 PM
However just because it isn't signed doesn't mean that Michael Harris had anything to do with the design, as Ron at Artius kindly reminded me.   8)

Did I say it did  ???  Quite the contrary in fact if you read my statement again.  Don't start Lynne  ;D

Who, MOI!   ;D

Nothing against anything you said, more against myself, and just reiterating the fact.  I had always assumed that if it was early, then it was designed by Michael Harris, but I found out I was wrong.
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: Pip on January 28, 2007, 07:19:52 PM
'k - let you off then.  I've also been on the receiving end of good (and welcome) advice from Sir Ron of Artius although only with regard to IOW glass - not Mdina - so I guess I must be doing something right in that area ;D
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: MarkHill on January 29, 2007, 12:24:49 AM
Hi there,
Both are Mdina, and both are late - late 1970s at the earliest I'd think, but more likely 1980s onwards. It's very, very hard to date them closer than that.
As regards signatures on Mdina...as I say in my book....not all early pieces (1969-72 and for a few years beyond) were signed. This was primarily due to the sheer amount of glass being made and shipped to distributors or otherwise sold. They just made so much it was more important to 'get it out there' and sell it than sign it. They only had limited numbers of staff and time. The lack of a signature does not indicate a second, as has been said above. The lack of a signature can even occur on later pieces, so the lack of a signature does not indicate an early piece. Always go by shape and colour here! The only instance concerning Michael Harris not liking to sign pieces relates to his name, 'Michael Harris', not the factory name, 'Mdina'.
Hoipe this clarifies things a bit!
Best,
Mark
www.markhillpublishing.com
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: robbo on January 29, 2007, 08:42:57 AM
Hi Mark,

Thanks for confirming and for clarifying the signature issue.

Robbo
Title: Re: Two More Pieces of Mdina(?), Unsigned
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 29, 2007, 09:07:32 AM
 ;D ;D ;D

It took me quite a while to find this thread - but I see Mark came in to clarify it all properly. ;D

It's fantastic to see how far you all got before Mark came in. :-* ;)