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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: josordoni on May 23, 2007, 03:20:43 PM

Title: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 23, 2007, 03:20:43 PM
Two pieces of Sowerby here , both with peacock marks.

First this blue (is this the colour I have seen referred to as Sorbini?) footed small bowl, with a thistle pattern.  Does the pattern have a specific name?

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7162

Second, this is so lovely.  I have a feeling it might be a Walter Crane piece?  But I can't track down this design at all.

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7161

Thanks!



Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: Bernard C on May 23, 2007, 04:11:09 PM
Lynne — Yes, your wall pocket is from Walter Crane's The Baby's Opera, A Book of Old Rhymes with New Dresses, 1877.   Sowerby pattern number 1296, which dates it to early 1878.   Rather scarce, in my experience.

I thought that Sowerby used the term "malachite".   I can see thistles and a shamrock;  there should be roses somewhere on this patriotic piece.  I haven't found it yet, probably because the design wasn't registered.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 23, 2007, 04:16:02 PM
Thank you Bernard!  It's very very pretty. 

Do you happen to know if that blue is the one I have seen called "Sorbini" on the thistle comport?

Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 23, 2007, 04:55:57 PM
Lynne — Yes, your wall pocket is from Walter Crane's The Baby's Opera, A Book of Old Rhymes with New Dresses, 1877.   Sowerby pattern number 1296, which dates it to early 1878.   Rather scarce, in my experience.

I thought that Sowerby used the term "malachite".   I can see thistles and a shamrock;  there should be roses somewhere on this patriotic piece.  I haven't found it yet, probably because the design wasn't registered.

Bernard C.  8)

Ah, yes, now I look closely there are roses as well... at the bottom of the design immediately under the shamrocks. 

I think malachite refers to all the colours, the Sorbini blue seems to be the only one with a specific name, the others are just green, purple, grey.  It is a very bright Wedgwood blue (on the red side of the spectrum, if you know what I mean), not the usual slightly turquoisey one.
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: Bernard C on May 24, 2007, 07:47:28 AM
... but no leeks, a comparatively recent addition.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 24, 2007, 12:47:47 PM
You'd think they would have SOMETHING for Wales - did it used to be classed as just another part of England?

Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: Anne on May 24, 2007, 07:34:31 PM
Lynne, the daffodil was also used for Wales I think?
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 24, 2007, 07:58:28 PM
yes, I think so, Anne, but there isn't anything for Wales on this piece   :-\
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: Sue C on May 25, 2007, 07:55:40 AM
Lynne, what's the motif around the rim? i can't quit make it out, look's a bit like corn.
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 25, 2007, 09:09:00 AM
The border immediately under the scalloped rim is of little entwined twigs (although they actually look like samphire!!) .  I've put another close up pic on - good supersize, so click on the middle of the gallery pic.

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7184

Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: Sue C on May 25, 2007, 09:18:45 AM
Ah, thought it could have been the crossed over leaves of the leek, but not so sure now.
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 25, 2007, 09:31:05 AM
No, if they were leeks they would be rather diseased ones I think!   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: Max on May 25, 2007, 09:36:09 AM
Lynne, thanks for the Samphire note.  There's a Samphire Ho near Dover and I always meant to Google it...now I have.  :)  I didn't know the other name for Samphire is Glasswort and it was used in the glass industry.  Cheers for the info!   :D :D

Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 25, 2007, 09:40:35 AM
and I had forgotten about the glass link - perhaps it actually is samphire rather than twigs? 

(samphire to eat... ptah, ptooey.... all fibres and sticky bits )

Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 30, 2007, 04:07:13 PM
Right..... so back to the drawing board for the thistle comport, since it isn't Sowerby at all.

Doh!!!!!!!!

Since when has a Sowerby piece had a Greener mark on it then, eh???  Tell me that then?

(please may I have a new brain for Christmas pretty please.... :'()
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: Bernard C on May 30, 2007, 05:24:32 PM
Lynne — We all make mistakes — thanks for your correction.

Which Greener punched TM, the earlier Star or the later Halbard / Axe?

As for possible Welsh emblems, the earliest piece I've found is a wonderful black three-legged vase / spill holder, popularly attributed to Davidson (probably without any real evidence) and rather vaguely dated to c.1890.   See Notley/Miller's p.29.   This has everything, including lions' heads and feet, heraldic escutcheons, greek key, floral swags, and panels containing the three floral country symbols, between each of which is a leek/onion/daffodil hybrid of some vague nature.   Perhaps it was just infill.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 30, 2007, 05:34:07 PM
I think it's the early Angus and Greener star.  I've popped a pic up for us, I'd be grateful if you would check it for me Bernard.

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7280
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: Bernard C on May 30, 2007, 05:47:07 PM
Yes, Lynne, that's the star.   It's not early enough for Angus & Greener, but is either Henry Greener or Greener & Co.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on May 30, 2007, 06:34:01 PM
Righty ho, I am just gleaning from the various bits online about the Sunderland/Tyneside glassworks, and obviously misunderstood the various incarnations of Mr Greener and his glassworks! 

Am I right that the star lion was in use 1875-1885?
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: Bernard C on May 30, 2007, 06:41:38 PM
Lynne — Yes, more or less, with the usual caveats, as no-one really knows that accurately.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: Bernard C on June 02, 2007, 07:26:13 PM
Lynne — Well done — great outcome.

... and thanks for the acknowledgement, much appreciated.

Bernard C.  8)    :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Two pieces of Sowerby for assistance please
Post by: josordoni on June 02, 2007, 09:20:45 PM
Gobsmacked is a good description of me this evening......

and an acknowledgement is the least I can do Bernard, I am very grateful indeed for your expertise.

 :D