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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Gary on January 05, 2012, 03:25:49 PM

Title: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: Gary on January 05, 2012, 03:25:49 PM
Can anyone tell me how this type of decoration on this bowl is achieved, ie the crackled effect. The bowl is white and clear glass rising to lime green with silver mica.
Gary
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 05, 2012, 03:59:23 PM
I think this sort of effect is achieved by rolling a white-cased gather of clear glass in further chips of clear glass placed on the marver, then rolled in.
I take it it's the same effect as is sometimes seen in Vasart?  Often in an orange background with aubergine rim.

I wouldn't call it Cloissonne though.
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: Ivo on January 05, 2012, 05:14:21 PM
I'd call it Ikora until proven incorrect.
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 05, 2012, 05:31:09 PM
That's what I thought, looking at the first pic Ivo, but if you examine the texture of the enamels from the inside, in the second pic, blown up, the way it is done is quite different to the way it's done at WMF to make Ikora.
It's also very highly distinctive of Ysart glass - and sometimes seen in the unidentified Czech glass that can be mistaken for Monart - the stuff Frank has christened "Cellophane".

I'm sure WMF use a technique involving cold water to crack the surface to which enamels then get introduced, while I'm positive this is done using a "splodgy" marvering technique - but with clear splodges.

Monart Cloissonee WAS made using a cold water treatment to crack the surface before introducing enamels into the cracks.

(I find it quite fascinating - it took me a long time wondering how it was done before I had the "Eureka" moment of; "It's clear splodges!"  :pb:)
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: Gary on January 05, 2012, 06:25:38 PM
This bowl is a Monart piece the shape code is IG and size code V111, the colour code I don't know but it is not what is commonly called "cellophane". Photo of base with typical Monart pontil.
Gary
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 05, 2012, 06:36:28 PM
I know it's not "Cellophane glass" or Czech, I'm absolutely sure it IS Monart, Gary!  :thup:
But you sometimes see these clear glass "splodgy" bits in Cellophane glass.
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: nigel benson on January 05, 2012, 08:54:08 PM
Hello,

100% Monart, as Gary says.

I am not sure of Sue's description of the way the colouring technique was achieved though. I would have thought is was more to do with a clear gather being rolled over the coloured enamel spread on the marver in a particular way so that it stretches/spreads when the piece is blown out to leave the clear areas between. I would guess that any mica would be added at a later point in the process rather than mixed with the enamel. A glass blowers knowledge would be very helpful here.........Adam are you out there??

TTFN, Nigel

PS. Who knows, maybe even a potato in the mix?
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 06, 2012, 11:00:24 AM
Potatoes would make bubbles, Nigel!
I've studied several bits of both Vasart and Monart with this effect - I found it quite fascinating. I'm fairly convinced I'm correct - but will happily change my opinion if corrected and a better explanation found.

It's the melty sort of roundness to the clear sections that made me think it was achived the way I do.
I feel it would be difficult to lay enamels out on a marver in a random pattern which includes only round holey bits.
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: nigel benson on January 06, 2012, 01:15:35 PM
Quote
Potatoes would make bubbles, Nigel!

I knew that when I put the 'PS' Sue. Just trying to stimulate a different thought process ;)

As for
Quote
I feel it would be difficult to lay enamels out on a marver in a random pattern which includes only round holey bits
am sure that it would be very easy to construct something along the lines of a stencil which the enamel would pass through, but now I'm clutching at straws  ::)

Nigel
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: Gary on January 08, 2012, 02:30:45 PM
The following two Vasart pieces are from the earliest period production (both signed). The Monart finish has a clearer definition between the coloured glass and the clear glass compared to the Vasart finish.
Gary
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: Frank on January 10, 2012, 02:19:19 AM
At some point this style of decoration got christened cobweb. Ysart Glass plates 30 & 117 described as mesh-like. I would suspect Sue is not far off the mark as to how it was achieved but a dip mould could also be responsible. More likely is marvering on a textured surface which would fit with the Ysart way of working. It could not have happened with the same technique as Cloisonné though.
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 10, 2012, 11:53:10 AM
Small chunks of clear glass on the marver would be a "textured surface".  :smg:

I was studying three bits of cobweb (all Vasart) at an antique centre on Saturday. There were definitely a good number of coloured glass "strands" snaking over the mostly clear blobs, which would be consistent with my theory.....
Title: Re: Monart cased cloisonne ?
Post by: Frank on January 11, 2012, 12:14:31 PM
Yes it would Sue.