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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Resolved Paperweight Queries => Topic started by: ian.macky on March 27, 2005, 04:37:06 AM

Title: 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? magnifier? ID = Cover for medallion paperweight
Post by: ian.macky on March 27, 2005, 04:37:06 AM
[Mod: This thread contains varied discussion on Patents, glass blocks etc. The details are left as they are since it would be difficult to separate into discreet topics. This note added Oct 2011]

Can anyone ID this piece of glass?  It's clear, round, 2 1/8" diameter by 1 15/16" high, embossed (upside-down when the flat base is down) "PATD OCT 2ND 1866".  Not fully solid, the base has a depression.  Seems like a desk magnifier-- works well for viewing non-flat objects since they can occupy the space-- good for coins, bugs, etc.  Alas, the USPTO still cannot search for anything but patent# and classification for old patents, and there are a couple hundred issued on that day.

(http://glassian.org/GMB/magnifier.jpg)

Thanks for your time!
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Bernard C on March 27, 2005, 07:56:25 AM
Hi Ian,

Welcome to the GMB.   I am delighted that you have become a member.

To those not acquainted with Ian, just browse around his amazing website.

As to your eclectic object, could it be some form of focussing device for concentrating light on a small area, like a lacemaker's lamp?

You are probably more familiar with lettering punched into moulds than most.   I take it that there is no evidence in the font that would help determine its origin.   Don't forget that various countries in the old British Empire had patent offices, including your native Australia, although the early date of 1866 could eliminate some of them.

You will be pleased to know I have re-opened my eBay account after a thorough security review of my systems and procedures.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: KevinH on March 27, 2005, 03:10:53 PM
Since it has Patent info embossed I would suggest it's not a paperweight as patented items tend to have rather more "intended functionality" than paperweights.

Of course, these days, collectors and other folk might buy such items as paperweights, or claim them to be "paperweight-related".
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on March 27, 2005, 03:51:01 PM
Hi Bernard, Frank, David, et al....   glad you find my site interesting.  it's an entirely different area of glass, something we're usually familiar with but overlook.  People here don't recognize insulators on the shelf, but take them outsite and point at a telephone/power pole and they get it.  In the UK, porcelain was king so you'll not see any glass telegraph or telephone insulators; suspension insulators yes (Pilkington, EIV, Sediver, etc).  Likewise a vault light in captivity draws a blank, but "remember those grids of square purple glass blocks set in downtown sidewalks" almost always rings a bell.

Bernard, back in the eBay saddle again, good.  I have a hexagonal Hayward Bros. vault light wending its way from Canada right this minute, so yours will have a friend.  Also have a St. Pancras light now, so the UK collection is starting to shape up (everything's up from NIL).

Re the thingy: the embossing is hand engraved in a typical save-effort sans-serif font, very much like insulators of the period.  Yes, it's strange that a paperweight/magnifier would have the patent date on it, especially upside-down.  I am assuming it's a US patent-- the form of the patent declaration is typical, and don't they say "Registered" in the UK?  Of course there are other countries too, but it smells American to me.  The original owner thought it was a paperweight, but then changed his mind when he got it.  I thought it might be a vault light, so bought it from him.  Seems we're both wrong, but it's an interesting  piece nonetheless.  Seems optical one way or another, but isn't designed to be attached easily, which is why I'm leaning toward desk magnifier.

I will go the library and use their fast connection to page through all 200+ patents of that date and see what I find.  I did check the optics classes I could identify, but didn't find anything from the right time-period.  When I win the lottery I will pay a big team to make a proper patent#/date/inventor/title index of the USPO, all N millions of them.

Cheers...

--ian

P.S. Chips in vault lights are not a problem, usually it's a dream to find any new pattern, even a specimen (Bernard's light is slobber-inducing to all 3 of us who collect them).  I only have a dozen  or so different kinds out of the hundreds patented.  They are very rare and getting more so, since the old ones are just smashed when removed, not saved.  They're usually set in steel and concrete, so removal is very difficult.  In the UK you can find entire panels of the set-in-iron kind at architectural salvage places, but they typically want £500+ for them.  (salvo.co.uk has some Haywards listed, and retrouvius.com has some  unidentified types).  The cost of shipping entire panels to the US would be just a bit stiff, alas.
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Max on March 27, 2005, 03:56:58 PM
Quote
(Bernard's light is slobber-inducing to all 3 of us who collect them


Is that a Hayward Bros. vault light?  I'm only quoting that name from Ian, and have no idea what one is.  Bernard?  Is there any chance of a pic of the mystical item?
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on March 27, 2005, 04:07:00 PM
Pictures of Bernard's Hayward Bros light are still up in the Garage Sale.  --ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Bernard C on March 27, 2005, 05:23:16 PM
More photographs at http://www.peninsulators.org —> Prism Glass —> UK —> Hayward —> Product Pics.   Click on any of these images in either location to enlarge.

Please note that the Light Flow Diagram is an approximation drawn from observation, and does not take into account light entering the top at other angles.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Max on March 27, 2005, 06:05:13 PM
Thanks Ian and Bernard   :D

So...pavement lights.  Is Bernards' Hayward one special because it's semi prismatic?  Otherwise, surely they're quite common, aren't they?  I hope I'm not being rude - it's just a mystery to me!
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Bernard C on March 27, 2005, 07:17:50 PM
Max — it's not like that at all.   Most people have no concept of beauty or heritage when it comes to street furniture and external architectural fittings.   When dug up or removed, usually unnecessarily, they get smashed up, go in the skip and get dumped in land fill.

Does your town or village have a complete inventory of all such items?   I bet it doesn't.   Does your community offer grant assistance towards the cost of restoration?    No, of course not.   Much better to spend your local taxes on new Victorian rubbish bins and twee brick paving that won't last five years.

Bernard C.  :(
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2005, 09:03:36 PM
Max--

Vault/pavement lights are not common any more, and becoming scarcer all the time.  The older type set in iron can be removed as a unit and you see those at salvage yards sometimes, but the type set in concrete (locked in with steel) can't be removed as easily.  Usually, the demo contractor just bashes them to bits and throws them out!  Occasionally you find NOS ones, leftover from the initial installations.  In general, they are very hard to come by.  Bernard's piece is quite unusual, the first of its kind I've seen.  But, it's still early for me in the research phase, so many patterns are still new to me.  Hayward Bros was very big in vault lights, a pioneer, so their glass is particularly desirable.  Don't know why I'm talking it up like this since I'm just going to make life harder when bidding time comes!

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on March 27, 2005, 09:04:09 PM
I like these sort of things. Having collected light bulbs and viewed them as glass archaeology I suppose it is not surprising - I was planning to bid on Bernard's lump but got foiled :cry:  Glad to hear you are up and running again Bernard.
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on March 28, 2005, 04:30:38 PM
All--

For those of you interested in old architectural glass, here's something to keep an eye out for.  It's the only one I've seen, and quite historically important.  This one came out of Poland.  It's about 8" or so long, thick glass BIM with a glass seal to make it airtight.

(http://peninsulators.org/GMB/falconnier.jpg)

I'll post the solution anon.

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on March 28, 2005, 04:32:52 PM
Another view or two please... :lol:
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on March 29, 2005, 01:33:07 AM
This is the usual fate of vault lights:

(http://peninsulators.org/GMB/smashed.jpg)

(Photo credit Brandon Hartle)

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on March 29, 2005, 01:42:59 AM
Quote
Another view or two please...

This top view rather gives it away...   but it's packed deep now so I can't take a more circumspect shot:

(http://peninsulators.org/GMB/falconnier2.jpg)

Here's the seal:

(http://peninsulators.org/GMB/falconnier_seal.jpg)

All these photos are from the original seller.

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on March 29, 2005, 08:05:12 AM
Googled straight to your site!

Never of guessed  :)  Were they ever used in any quantity?
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on March 29, 2005, 07:50:00 PM
Quote
Googled straight to your site!

Sorry Frank, can't award any points for looking it up on my own site! :wink:

As the glass, my reference material is also packed.  I believe they were successful at the time, but can't be more definitive at present.

Extremely rare now.  If you see one, grab it!

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on March 29, 2005, 08:05:14 PM
Quote from: "ian.macky"
Sorry Frank, can't award any points for looking it up on my own site! :wink:


Huh, :?  - but it was google's fault!

Another reference http://www.glassblocks.co.uk/history.htm :roll:
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on March 29, 2005, 10:35:59 PM
I looked at all 204 US patents issued Oct 2, 1866, and did not find a match.  :sad: But, that was just after a quick perusal of the first drawing sheets.  Will have to go back over the possibles (lamps etc) and check in more depth.  FYI, here are the patents issued on that date:

        58362   steam-boiler condenser
        58363   pen rack
        58364   shoe fastening
        58365   paper fastener
        58366   sewing machine
        58367   skate
        58368   chain pump
        58369   fence gate
        58370   improved composition for removing ink from type
        58371   improved medical compound for hog-cholera
        58372   cotton-planter
        58373   hot air furnace
        58374   flour and grain preserver
        58375   soda water apparatus
        58376   ruffling attachment for sewing machines
        58377   improvement in the manufacture of water-proof hose
        58378   clothes-line reel
        58379   improved method of burning oil for fuel
        58380   wheel-cultivator
        58381   cotton-planter
        58382   lightning rod
        58383   parallel-cultivator
        58384   gang-plow
        58385   potato-planter
        58386   wheel-plow
        58387   kitchen table
        58388   corkscrew
        58389   wheel-cultivator
        58390   potato digger
        58391   pressing hats
        58392   lantern
        58393   gas purifier
        58394   spring bed bottom
        58395   wheel-plow
        58396   coffee pot
        58397   wind wheel
        58398   oven for gas cook stoves
        58399   sewing machine shuttle
        58400   water closet
        58401   hay and grain protector
        58402   oar lock
        58403   surgical splint
        58404   fish hook
        58405   door spring
        58406   skirt elevator
        58407   stone pavement
        58408   casting tinners' solder
        58409   lubricator
        58410   ornamenting glass
        58411   snow and ice guard for roofs
        58412   horse hay rake
        58413   excavator
        58414   neck ties
        58415   churn
        58416   bilge water discharging
        58417   mucilage bottle
        58418   car coupling
        58419   clothes-line fastener
        58420   sponge cup
        58421   improved composition for paint
        58422   automatic feed for carburetors
        58423   improved composition for destroying insects
        58424   sad iron heater
        58425   process of seasoning wood
        58426   oyster rake
        58427   watch
        58428   card rack
        58429   billiars register
        58430   belt buckle
        58431   revolving moldboard
        58432   fence
        58433   let-off and take-up
        58434   silk twisting mach[ine]
        58435   stone channelling mach[ine]
        58436   hollow auger
        58437   bedstead fastening
        58438   stone pick and axe
        58439   induction coils for electro magnets
        58440   skate
        58441   shutter fastening
        58442   lid lifter
        58443   gun lock
        58444   breech-loading fire-arm
        58445   bale tie
        58446   making wood screws
        58447   car wheel
        58448   railway car
        58449   cask
        58450   cask
        58451   cask
        58452   cask
        58453   combined foot warmer and reflecting lamp
        58454   improvement in prepared paste
        58455   spice box
        58456   wood plane attachment
        58457   sand pump
        58458   improved paint for ships' bottoms
        58459   lamp
        58460   spider [cooking pan]
        58461   shutter fastener
        58462   folding table
        58463   alphabet frame
        58464   narrow ware
        58465   thill-coupling
        58466   box mach[ine]
        58467   bag lock
        58468   well packing
        58469   well packing
        58470   pinking mach[ine]
        58471   apparatus for carbureting air
        58472   cleansing sorgo sirup
        58473   cutting soap
        58474   furnace-grate bar
        58475   storing oil
        58476   cultivator
        58477   heating stove
        58478   reciprocating steam engine
        58479   well tubing
        58480   whip-rack
        58481   lamp
        58482   paper cutting mach[ine]
        58483   machine for making spikes
        58484   improved roofing material
        58485   machine for forging horseshoe nails
        58486   hand seeder
        58487   ore separator
        58488   bendng wood
        58489   turn table for baker's ovens
        58490   till check
        58491   governor
        58492   signal for railroad draw bridge
        58493   cooking stove
        58494   furnace-grate bar
        58495   horseshoe
        58496   steam heater
        58497   improvement in the manufacture of floor-coverings
        58498   circular sewing machine
        58499   improved roofing-cement
        58500   shovel plow
        58501   setting gems
        58502   fruit can
        58503   globe valve
        58504   edge-tool grinder
        58505   corset
        58506   steam-boiler fire-tube
        58507   splitting wood
        58508   shaving leather
        58509   tuyere
        58510   baby jumper
        58511   preserving meat
        58512   oil still
        58513   pressing hats
        58514   cider mill
        58515   washing machine
        58516   improvement in engraving copper, &c.
        58517   clover harvester
        58518   coffee pot
        58519   bench dog
        58520   horse shoe nail machine
        58521   machine for making split spikes
        58522   domestic oven
        58523   furniture caster
        58524   lamp burner
        58525   breech-loading fire-arm
        58526   cotton press
        58527   hoopskirt
        58528   peat machine
        58529   sheep rack
        58530   water cooler
        58531   cherry stoner
        58532   improved composition of matter
        58533   cultivator-teeth
        58534   cultivator
        58535   clothes line fastener
        58536   match box
        58537   cigar lighter
        58538   cigar press
        58539   ore mill
        58540   hoop skirt clasp
        58541   derrick
        58542   shifting rail for carriage seat
        58543   rotary cultivator
        58544   pressing hats
        58545   bed bottom
        58546   steam gage cock
        58547   horse power
        58548   bag lock
        58549   coal chute
        58550   cast-off of waxed thread sewing machines
        58551   grain screen
        58552   steam-boiler furnace
        58553   gas retort
        58554   method of opening tin cans
        58555   pressing [clothes?]
        58556   wood oiling machine
        58557   seed planter
        58558   eraser
        58559   apparatus for carbureting air
        58560   potato digger
        58561   bosoms
        58562   improvement in signal-codes for electric telegraphs
        58563   paper cutter
        58564   steam-boiler fire-tube
        58565   constructing railroad tracks

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Bernard C on March 29, 2005, 11:37:32 PM
Ian — 58492 signal for railroad draw bridge looks very interesting.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2005, 12:11:56 AM
Quote from: "Bernard"
Ian — 58492 signal for railroad draw bridge looks very interesting.

Yes, that and the lamps are on my shortlist.  I've since read 58492 and it's mostly to do with interlocking the signal and the draw bridge such that the bridge cannot be raised (or rotated) without the signal first being given, and likewise preventing the signal  from being withdrawn while the bridge is open.

Quote from: "Alba F. Smith"
My invention relates to the signals which indicate when the bridge is open, and which are relied on to avert most deplorable accidents.

The signal devices are a red ball (or red expanding umbrella-like device) for day-time use, and ordinary lanterns in red and white for night-time use.   No mention of glass, optics, or anything aside from generic "lanterns".  This doesn't seem like a fit, alas.

Will keep looking.

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Bernard C on March 30, 2005, 01:12:38 AM
Ian — ... and now for something completely different.   Channel 4 television here in the UK has recently launched a new and fascinating series of short links between advertisements and programmes.   These are set in unlikely situations.   The scene looks slightly odd.   As the camera pans round this scene all the components gradually interlock to form a "4" and then unlock into randomness again.

One of these is formed from electricity pylons, complete with glass insulators.   You would love it.   I can't find it on the Internet.   You might.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Connie on March 30, 2005, 10:58:34 AM
What about these:

58396 coffee pot
58518 coffee pot

When I first saw the piece, I thought about the glass domes on the top of perculators.
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on March 31, 2005, 05:34:21 AM
Quote from: "Connie"
58396 coffee pot
58518 coffee pot

No go, they're just coffee pots.  Checked all three lamps too, they're just lamps.  This is not the first time I've looked at every single patent for a given date and found no match for an item claimed to be patented that day.  Don't know what to make of this.  Is it possible it's not US?

Quote from: "Bernard"
American inspired "4"s include skyscrapers (New York?), and a roadside diner.

Sounds like an optical illusion sculpture, an impossible 3D shape like an Escher drawing, but only looks right from one position-- from any other angle you can see it's not a continuous object.  Alas, I gave up TV years ago, don't miss the 99% drivel, but do miss the occasional 1% of good stuff.  I miss NOVA mostly.  The Secret Life of Machines was good-- was that what it was called?

Well, my whatzit is definitely a whatzit.  I will put it in my whatzit gallery and throw it open to the universe.  I think it's a desk magnifier for small objects, not just flat stuff.

Question:

What is the standard form of patent embossing on UK glass?  Is it "Registered" instead of "Patented"?

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on March 31, 2005, 06:35:04 AM
Registered is only used for design protection and unlike patents needs regular renewals. Items would be marked with Regd. Diamond or the word Regd. or Reg. No. or Registered and a number or not.

Patented items could have Patent, Patent Applied For, Patent Pending or Patent followed by a number.

Patent dates could be the patent application date or the patent approval date and possibly one or two other dates could be used. Prior to about 1920 UK patents were numbered from 1 annually and are often noted as 1905/123 for example.

That is all from memory so might not be 100% accurate nor complete.
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on March 31, 2005, 06:57:41 AM
Frank-- so, "PAT<super>D</super> OCT 2<super>ND</super> 1866" is a reasonable-looking embossing for UK glass?  [Nuts, HTML superscript is not working.]  I've experienced the old each-year-starts-over-at-1 UK system, it's pretty painful.  --ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Bernard C on March 31, 2005, 08:15:13 AM
Ian — as I said before, your whatzit's patent lettering could well be a UK patent, or a patent from other bits of the old British Empire; suggest Australia, New Zealand, India, Canada, and South Africa if you get no joy from London, although 1866 seems to me to be rather early for all of them.   I think you might find that all of these old bits of Empire relied upon the London Patent Office then.

And, while on the subject, what happened to the two Hayward design registrations I told you about early last year? — I can't find any mention on your Hayward pages.   Did the email go walkabout?   Do you want it again?   I know you received the Edmonton insulators registrations okay including the third, unknown registration.

HTML is not available on this board, despite it saying that it is.   However, the &... and &#... character actors work fine, but only once.   If you edit your reply you have to put them back in again.    This is useful for square brackets in samples of BBCode, showing others how to use it.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on March 31, 2005, 04:09:13 PM
Quote from: "Bernard"
I think you might find that all of these old bits of Empire relied upon the London Patent Office then.

Alas, alack, "Due to technical problems accessing images concerning specific patents, we have reluctantly had to suspend the GB esp@cenet service until further notice."  I checked the other esp@cenet databases and they turned up 0 records for date 18661002, which smells suspicious.  If only I had a set of Woodcroft abridgements!

Bernard, as to the two Hayward design registrations, I think they are gone.  When I got laid off at work, they only gave me a couple hours to vacate my computer and it wasn't nearly enough time.  I lost the bulk of my email, and only saved what had been filed on my home computer.  I couldn't find that mail in my prism glass folder, so it must have been still at work.  Could you possibly re-send?  Sorry for the trouble.

Yes, I did receive the Edmonton insulator registrations, and passed them along to the insulators mailing list, but your original mail on that topic has been black-holed too.  :evil: !()#$! :evil: work  :evil:   Am trying to recover my original mail from the ICON archive now.

Presumably BBC code just is a simple mapping to HTML?  Can it be modified?  Easy enough then to add [super][/super].

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on March 31, 2005, 04:24:12 PM
Hi Ian,

Modifying the BBCode is possible but not really do able here. That requires time and geekery. Better spent on glass! REGd gets the message across :|

The esp database only really covers from 1920 so it needs an actual visit to the patent office to get the earlier ones. Although some earlier ones are on there and it is on and off line with great monotony. Sometimes you can find US, German and French patents for an invention but not their UK equivalent and others vice-versa.
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Bernard C on April 01, 2005, 07:09:37 AM
Ian et al —

Found this in the Collins Dictionary and Encyclopaedia of Ornithology, 2nd edition, 1992:

falcon(n)ier, f. -iere — 1. An individual involved with the conservation and/or management of falcons for reasons other than the sport of faconry (q.v.), such as bird pest control on farmland, airports, and in towns and cities.

— 2. (m. form only) An artificial nesting platform, typically a two sided box with a retaining ledge or rim on the other two sides, placed high on buildings in towns or on poles on farmland by a falconnier (q.v. 1.) to encourage resident breeding populations of falcons.   Also an insulating base for such a platform when positioned atop electricity supply cable poles to prevent nesting debris causing power loss.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on April 01, 2005, 04:20:38 PM
Bernard, got your re-sends, thanks much, they're on my local hard drive now, which is relatively safe.  Until I post to my site and the Internet Archiver picks them up, they're not really safe.  Has everyone checked out the Wayback Machine (http://www.archive.org/web/web.php)?

Dictionary of Ornithology... well, falcon, falconnier, I hadn't thought it might be a real word instead of a proper name.  Perhaps it's a family name based on an old trade, Baker, Smith, Fisher, etc?  The glass thing's not related to falconry however-- it's architecural.  Nice add'l information, tho.


In case anyone hasn't gotten it yet, the Falconnier thing is an early hollow glass building block:

http://peninsulators.org/GMB/falconnier.gif

This page is from Glass in Architecture and Decoration (Raymond McGrath, A. C. Frost and H. E. Beckett), an unbelievably good reference book.  On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd give it about a 23.  If you don't have one, recommend BookFinder.com (http://BookFinder.com) for a meta-book-finder, it seems to be the most complete.

I need one of those diamond-pattern Falconnier blocks, but as I've said, they're rare.  So far I've seen zero on eBay, and was lucky my site references them (in the patent index), as someone with a single block for sale found me and came calling.

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on April 01, 2005, 05:14:07 PM
Another odd bit of glass, bird bath.

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7479&item=6522021401
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Anne on April 01, 2005, 05:26:14 PM
Frank, would that be used inside a birdcage rather than outside do you think?
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on April 01, 2005, 06:26:30 PM
Frank, if you think that's odd, check this out:

GLASS WINDOW SASH PULLEYS/GUIDES 1863 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7310809127)

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on April 01, 2005, 07:28:33 PM
Yup, that is very different but a good material for the job.

The birdbath would hang over the open door outside the cage - I would have thought that they must have been made quite a lot in pre-plastic days.

It is certainly interesting to step away from the ordinary uses of glass.
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on April 02, 2005, 01:31:53 AM
Now for some glass content: here's another nice piece of glass I won: HUGE NEW ENGLAND SANDWICH GLASS ARCHITECTURAL TILE 1850 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7306688497).  It appears to me to be a skylight tile, based on similarities to my Luxfer skylight tile (of known provenance).  I think it's not strong enough for pavement use.  Nice piece of glass, very thick and heavy.  More glass is better, neh?

  --ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on April 02, 2005, 09:50:48 AM
Seems to have been a popular tile, did they produce many designs? So now we have glass walls, doors, windows, ceilings, floors, pet housing and infrastructure components. To which could be added electric heater, lighting, staircases and of course kitchen and tableware.

The possibility of a totally glass house would seem to be realistic today. There are also some new conductive glasses that can replace much of the electrical components. We just lack a soft safe flexible glass for furnishings, what a pity the fabled Roman flexible glass has been lost.
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Anne on April 02, 2005, 11:47:52 AM
Ian - This is a very nice glass "tile". I love to see glass used architecturally - especially buildings with glass skylights / domes / roofs where there are glass panels to let in the light. Shame to many of them are left to go green and gungy - when new and/or clean they look wonderful. Glass bricks have been used in one of the new car park entrances also near me - so much nicer than a blank concrete wall! Shame there isn't more glass used imaginatively - rather than just huge sheets of plain glass in concrete boxes. :(

Your glass window sash cord pieces were very interesting - I've never seen any like those before.
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: roget123 on April 04, 2005, 06:55:59 PM
Greetings to all,

The inscription is unusual for in many countries of the World patents are described by a number, not a date.  This concept is used in most countries that formed part of the old British Empire; as shown on that intriguing object "Mr Lillicrap's Hone" which has several Patent numbers on it (no years).
In the UK patents are numbered consequentially from "1" on the first day of each year, there to identify a patent taken out in the UK you need to know the year and number.
Although just to prove that when ever anyone descibes how a sytem should be worked, an example such as Lillicrap's Hone comes along that shows how the rules were ignored.
So maybe an US patent is correct - I don't know what form they take.

Design Registrations on the other hand are numbered from the start of the series and thus a number is sufficient to identify them. This is of course after the 'diamond' registration series ended in 1884.

About the object, it reminds me of a bulkhead light diffuser as used in ships etc to bring light (normally sunlight) to the interior of a hold or similar space. The modern version are those light tubes that smart designers are using for buildings.  However as this item as a depression then maybe it was used with an artificial light source.
Hope this text is illuminative and not diffusing the matter further.

Geoff
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on April 04, 2005, 07:03:45 PM
Quote from: "roget123"
Lillicrap's Hone


Another interesting use of glass...
http://user.tninet.se/~uqv930t/vassare/stropp6.htm#Lillicraps%20hone
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Paul ADK on April 04, 2005, 07:34:46 PM
Frank:  I doubt it was soft, but as for flexible, I visited the Corning Museum many years ago and they had large glass springs on display that must have been compressed and released by thousands of visitors every year.  The museum suffered considerable flood damage some years back, but anyone interested in glass, Steuben in particular, that gets anywhere near Corning, NY and does not visit, deserves to be flogged.
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on April 05, 2005, 12:22:32 AM
Quote from: "Frank"
Seems to have been a popular tile, did they produce many designs?

This is the only one I've seen so far.  Who knows who made it or when-- "Sandwich" is one of those terms used fairly indiscriminantly.   Presumably s'wich + early date hooked a bunch of people.  My two Luxfer skylight tiles are the only two survivors from a trashed installation-- once again, the wrecking ball just pulverized it.  That's why architectural glass is so much more scarce than decorative glass.  They were recovered from a dumpster (tip)!  Here it is:

(http://peninsulators.org/Prism/Luxfer/skytop.jpg)

Quote from: "Frank"
The possibility of a totally glass house would seem to be realistic today.

You might be interested in  Dr. Willem van der Heyden's all-glass house of 1891, built in Meiji, Japan.  Pedro Guedes has written a paper about it.  Before-its-time is stating it mildly.

Quote from: "Geoff"
About the object, it reminds me of a bulkhead light diffuser as used in ships etc to bring light (normally sunlight) to the interior of a hold or similar space. The modern version are those light tubes that smart designers are using for buildings. However as this item as a depression then maybe it was used with an artificial light source.
Hope this text is illuminative and not diffusing the matter further.

Deck prisms!  Yes, predecessor to prism tiles, vault lights, etc.  It's  because I thought it might be a vault light that I bought it.  But, does not appear to be so.  It's not designed to be set in iron or concrete.  So far I've seen ONE original hexagonal deck prism on eBay, and I utterly blew the sniping (local computer clock wrong).  I grieve every day for missing the opportunity.  It hurts!

The stropper is very interesting, thanks for that.  Here's another type of glass I collect, often mis-identified (like this one):

GREEN DEPRESSION Glass REFRIGERATOR TRAY ESB Co RARE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7308907827)

No, it's not kitchenware.  Anyone care to hazard a guess?  The #7 appears to be the most common size-- I already have two, so didn't pursue it.

My Hayward Bros hexagonal pavement light arrived from Canada today!  My first H.B. light, and the one shown in their revolutionary patent application of 1871!

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on April 05, 2005, 06:54:55 AM
I presume the description 'refrigerator' is wrong, the feet look like battery rests that I have so is it a big one?
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on April 05, 2005, 07:00:37 AM
What is this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7311672995
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on April 05, 2005, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: "ian.macky"
You might be interested in  Dr. Willem van der Heyden's all-glass house of 1891, built in Meiji, Japan.  Pedro Guedes has written a paper about it.  Before-its-time is stating it mildly.


Can find no references on the net?
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Ivo on April 05, 2005, 01:29:59 PM
Quote from: "Frank"
What is this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7311672995


it is what dentists sterilise their drill bits in.
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on April 05, 2005, 03:27:58 PM
Quote from: "Frank"
I presume the description 'refrigerator' is wrong, the feet look like battery rests that I have so is it a big one?

Very good-- it is indeed battery-related.  It's a battery tray; it would have been filled with sand, and a glass battery jar sat in it.  I have an early one where the embossing was right in the middle of the bottom where, um, you can't see it once the  jar is in place.  The old embossing is blotted out and it's on the rim now.  The early one also had ground feet, an extra production step they omitted in later models.  I haven't made a gallery of my other battery glass yet, in particular the battery legs are very interesting.  Did you say you have some battery rests?  The UK type (http://peninsulators.org/Battery/British/index.html) are fairly different than the  US type (http://peninsulators.org/Battery/American/index.html).  Did you say you have some battery rests?    Have any pictures?

Quote from: "Frank"
Can find no references on the net?

Presumably you tried and failed?  The answer is no.  There are great swaths of information that are not available online, huge libraries of paper yet to be digitized.

Quote from: "Ivo"
it is what dentists sterilise their drill bits in

There's another speciality for you: medical glass, or even more specifically, dental glass.  Has everyone seen the Biddle tray?  It's an unusual piece of Fry glass, a rectangular piece in their opal glass with depressions for tools.  I've been looking for one for years.  Soon after I started looking, one appeared on eBay, so I figured they weren't that tough and I'd watch it go by and see what it fetched.  Turns out to have been a fluke, there's not been another one since, just the one (it sold for $300).

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on April 05, 2005, 03:41:20 PM
They will be off to eBay soonish.

(http://www.ysartglass.com/ebay/batteryrest.jpg)

From left to right:

1x Unipart - U10 x1 - 1 1 1/16" diameter, green/aqua - Chipped along half of outer edge and centre button which might just be a mould snap. Base is corrugated.

Bottoms
2x B10 1 1/4" diameter - 1 pale green, 1 clear
2x B20 1 5/8" diameter - 2 different mouldings, 1 pale green/aqua 1 very pale

Tops
4x T20 1 7/8" diameter - 4 (3 identical one marginally different) pale green aqua
2x T30 2 7/16" diameter - 2 pale green

Will I get $300 for them? :lol:
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on April 05, 2005, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: "Frank"
Will I get $300 for them?

Possibly!  There are a few people who collect battery rests, tho mostly they stick with US ones.  You've got one there I don't have, the unipart in aqua (I just have clear).  The U and B and T codes I just made up myself, so noone will know what they mean unless you point them to my site.  Will you be listing them in the Insulators category?

--ian
Title: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on April 05, 2005, 04:51:22 PM
I should think so, the listing does include a link to your site.
Title: Re: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: ian.macky on May 30, 2010, 08:21:54 PM
Can anyone ID this piece of glass?  It's clear, round, 2 1/8" diameter by 1 15/16" high, embossed (upside-down when the flat base is down) "PATD OCT 2ND 1866".  Not fully solid, the base has a depression.  Seems like a desk magnifier-- works well for viewing non-flat objects since they can occupy the space-- good for coins, bugs, etc.  Alas, the USPTO still cannot search for anything but patent# and classification for old patents, and there are a couple hundred issued on that day.

I was taking new pics of this for my "whatsits" gallery and thought I'd re-Google : got a hit this time, with a picture of a complete unit.  It's a paperweight, and there is supposed to be a plaster insert (which is missing in mine).  A picture of a complete one that sold at auction is here (http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=45242&weid=8379&weiid=3433967&mindate=19900101&maxdate=20501231&lso=lotnumasc&pagenum=8&lang=En) (auctionflex.com).   It has a George Washington plaster medallion and is in better shape than mine ("Undamaged with some very light scratches to crown").  Sales price was $220 + 15% premium.

Description reads "GEORGE WASHINGTON PAPERWEIGHT, intricately molded plaster base depicting a profile of Washington within a wreath, above a spread-wing eagle, cherub on either side, Roman numerals for 1776 above and "First in War, First in Peace, First in the Hearts of his Countrymen" underneath, exterior edge molded ""PATD OCT 2ND 1866". United States. 1866-1876. Height: 1 7/8 in. diameter: 2 3/4 in."

Still don't know what the patent refers to.  Tried and failed to locate it again.

--ian
Title: Re: Identify this 1866 whatzit-- Paperweight? Desk magnifier?
Post by: Frank on October 16, 2011, 06:49:34 PM
That is a surprising result! But fits with your first thought!