Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: jomo99 on October 13, 2004, 09:03:49 PM
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Hi can anyone help i.d this Amber Jug? it's 12" high and 3" across with a 2" polished pontil, The handle is clear glass.Many Thanks
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2223
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No-one got any ideas then? :lol:
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Shhh! :idea: :idea: Thinking :idea: :idea:
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:oops: sorry!!!! lol!
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One of our oldest unresolved queries, the picture has been restored in the first post.
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Crikey, this is an old 'un! 8)
OK, I'll say Whitefriars very quietly and then disappear when everyone shoots me down... {bang} :D
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I thought this was Scandinavian, but I'm less sure now and feeling too grotty to put proper efforts into looking it up. I hope you get an attribution soon. :oops:
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Looks like Scandi to me. The name escapes me though. The clue to me is in the angular joint where the top of the handle is. I can only recall seeing turq before, but wouldn't surprise me if amber is right too.
Hi Max, you're thinking of Nanny Stills 'Harlekiini' jug - I was lucky enough to briefly own one and a set of 6 glasses before selling them in an instant! I don't think this is Harlekiini because as far as I know it did only come in the bluey turquoise and the shape of this isn't quite right. I did however see a very similar jug to this recently in a charity shop (the only discernible difference being the colour - this one was grey) which had an old Polish label on it - so perhaps Polish?
I've found an old picture of my jug (sob I loved this and wish I'd kept it now) - anyway, you can see it's quite different from the one above.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g60/pips-trip/Harlekiini0001.jpg
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Pip,
Just to throw a spanner in the works, here's a green Riihimäki Jug. :D :D
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2227
I've never seen any of the rest of the Harlekiini in any colour but the turquoise one though.
robbo
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:shock: hmmmmm erm, well, erm.... gosh I dunno - that does look EXACTLY the same shape ... perhaps the Harlekiini bit refers purely to the blue glass. So maybe Nanny Still designed these jugs for Riihimaki in different colours like your green one and then produced them in the tuquoisey/blue and gave them the Harlekiini name as a special range? Whaddya reckon? Either way though, they're different from the amber one at the beginning of this post - which I still reckon could be Polish.
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Muuten turkoosin-sinisia paitsi jalat varittomia/Valm. 50-luvulta 70 luv.alkuun/Sarjasta on tehty matkittuja laseja yms. Harlekiinin tunnistaa naista matkituista siita etta Harlekiinien jalka on varitonta lasia ja itse kanta on turkoosi seka lautasmainen eli valumatkeraava.
That's what it says about Harlekiini-lasisto in Designlasin Hintakirja anyway. :roll:
Any Finnish speakers available? :lol:
ISBN 952-99515-0-7
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googled finnish translator and sure enough, Intertran proudly presents the result:
Incidentally turquoise - sine beyond stump varittomia Valm. 50- studies 70 luv.alkuun/ Relegated is tehty matkittuja laser yms. Harlequin know woman matkituista siita etta Harlequin stem is varitonta goblet and yourself stem is turquoise mixed lautasmainen or valumatkeraava.
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:lol: Well, that narrows it down! :roll: :lol:
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By a native:
The color is turquoise blue except for the stand which has no colour. Glasses are manufactured between 50's until the beginning of 70's. The line/design has been copied and the original harlekiini-glass can be identified by the colourless stand and the glass itself that is turquoise blue, plate-like
and the last word is something about casting but seriously i've never heard the word before..
What could that be? Technical term I presume.
What about the original jug?
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and the last word is something about casting but seriously i've never heard the word before..
What could that be? Technical term I presume.
Could it possibly be turn-mould-blown?
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Could be Rob, maybe I'll try emailing the Finnish Glass Museum and asking them. :?: Thanks for the translation Frank, how convenient knowing Finnish speakers! :D
By the way, the term 'Mehuk' is applied to this piece too...I've InterTrans it (cheers Ivo) and it means Juicy/Mellow...so I suppose it's for juice. Hmm...didn't really learn anything there! :roll:
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how convenient knowing Finnish speakers!
Side benefit to living in a super-multicultural country, Carmen's last job had about 50 staff coming from 28 different countries and my last one had 25 nationalities. It was next door to the International Criminal Court which has over 100 nationalities working in it.
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Oh, I have one of the amber jugs (in the original post) in storage somewhere. I've always just assumed Polish. I've had one of the Harlekiini jugs in the past too (in turquoise) - and they're quite different, as Pip says.
Edit:
I found some piccies...
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/riihjug.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/ambjug.jpg)
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Hi everyone, thanks for all your time and efforts on this one, but I think I just might have to wait another coupla years!!!LOL maybe a stickered one will turn up!! Nic love the pics, wish i could take such good ones!
again many thanks everyone
John
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John,
Re. Nic's great photos: you need to find the thread in the Cafe about the use of Light Tents. I'll see if I can dig the topic out.
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Actually, these ones were taken on the reverse side of a big tatty poster that Blockbusters gave to me, and about 10 minutes worth of editing in Photoshop.
Original pic:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/ambjug1.jpg)
Ah, the crazy days before photo tents.... :lol:
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Tsk, I'm disappointed, Nic. You forgot the all-important Lens Flare...
(http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10058/lensflare.jpg)
:lol:
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I've never once found a practical use for Adobe's all-singing, all-dancinng lens flare option... until now. :lol:
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Brilliant! It's looks fantastic, I'd never thought of using it for glass. :P :P :twisted:
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I have a friend, David Hardy, who reckons he was the first person to ever use this effect on his astronomical paintings, around 1970. He's still waiting to be proven wrong:
EDIT: see http://www.hardyart.demon.co.uk/pages-extra/images3.html
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Were there not lots of similar spacey lens flares in Kubrick's '2001' two years earlier...?
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Quite possibly but these were probably not special effects. I was referring to David's still images and him being the first to actually paint the effect, however, he may have gained inspiration from the film as he was originally going to be one of the artists on the film. Think he had a disagreement with Kubrick, or something, but it's on the web site somewhere... :P
Edit: see http://www.hardyart.demon.co.uk/pages-projects/2001.html
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My aunt used to work in special effects and she said that Kubrick was a man very easy to fall out with (she worked on The Shining, which is legend for having a very tense and drawn out production). :lol:
I get the feeling this is fast moving into Cafe territory....
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uummm!!! all I said was nice pics!!! LOL Don't suppose theres still no chance of an attribution for my Jug?? LOL
John
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Sorry about that John, we seemed to have hi-jacked the thread unwittingly. That's the trouble sometimes: you get distracted from the main thrust... :oops:
The main concensus does appear to favour a Polish make, but it's still not conclusive. Nic and I were just keeping the thread alive (well, that's our excuse :) )
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Pip,
Just to throw a spanner in the works, here's a green Riihimäki Jug. :D :D
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2227
I've never seen any of the rest of the Harlekiini in any colour but the turquoise one though.
robbo
Ah, I don't think this is Riihimäki... I saw one today in amber, with it's original 6 glasses, the spout isn't quite right, the glass was too thin, and the glasses that came with it were the wrong shape from genuine Nanny Still ones.
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Ah, I don't think this is Riihimäki... I saw one today in amber, with it's original 6 glasses, the spout isn't quite right, the glass was too thin, and the glasses that came with it were the wrong shape from genuine Nanny Still ones.
Nic,
It's an intriguing one, isn't it? When you say the glass was thin, how thin, because I wouldn't say the green one is particularly so. Also, did the spout differ in a deliberate way?
Having looked through the pictures I've access too, there are some subtle differences between all of them—for example, the general inclination of the spout—which I suppose could be due to production inconsistencies.
On the green one and Pip's turquoise one the inclination of the spout looks less than on yours and that reproduced in "Nanny Still: 45 Years of Design", and the one in the 50s Finnish glass catalogues reprint book, resulting in a tighter curvature to the underside. However, the handle on Pip's, is more like the catalogue one, with the lower part nearly horizontal, whereas yours and mine are more inclined.
I'll take more photos of the green one tomorrow for you to look at, so you can compare with the amber one and your turquoise example.
Here's another one where the spout looks different again, and the handle is more like that in "Nanny Still: 45 years of Design":
http://pettueerikki.tripod.com/keremiikka/index.album?i=13
As we know, it's quite possible that another company made something very similar, maybe including my green one :lol: (thinking here of your Holmegaard "Copenhagen" / Maleras thread)
rob
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Sorry, I was in a bit of a rush when I wrote my message - I'd only just got in and I was typing about the set I saw before I forgot whilst the bath was running (it was a very hot and dusty day on Sunday).
I meant that the glass on the glasses was too thin. :oops: They were very lightweight and delicate with only slightly weighted bases.
On the amber pitcher (from yesterday, not the one at the beginning of the thread) the spout seemed too deep. The jug I had had quite a shallow spout by comparison. And the angle of the spout was a lot more inclined than even mine. I mean, this could be down to production variations, obviously - but it just seems strange that this one small part of the Harlekiini range was released in 3 (or potentially more) different colours.
I know there were other companies at the time making VERY similar jugs, because I've one in a very dark turquoise and incredibly thick glass, so it's entirely possible these different-coloured ones were made by someone else (it's even possible that Harlekiini-coloured ones were made by different companies, just to confuse things - as all the photos of genuine Harlekiini I've seen have the quite long handles, and all of our pitchers (except in the last link) have short triangular ones). I would have been tempted to buy the amber set, just to photograph and compare, if the num-nuts at the antique centre hadn't labelled it as Whitefriars and marked it up at £50. :roll:
Edit: Another thing I've just noticed from photos of genuine pitchers that doesn't come across on any of ours.... the base of the jug should have rounded edges, whereas all of ours *seem* to be angular. Except in the one with the long handle. :oops: I fear all of our pitchers might be knock-offs! :lol: I feel guilty about selling mine now. :lol:
Quick snapshot of my similar one in very thick dark glass:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/blue-jug.jpg)
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I received a reply from the Finnish Glass Museum today:
Nanny Still ´s Harlekiini juice-jug 1743 150 cl was in production
1959-1968 by Riihimäki glassfactory
1745 150 cl was in production 1959-1962
1746 100 cl was in production 1959-1968
In the book: Design 45 anni Nanny Still, The Finnish Glass Museum, Riihimäki
1996, is written:
Riihimäki made Harlekiini-series in green in the year 1969.
I don´t know what "valumatkeraava" means, because it is not correctly written!
Can you believe I forgot to ask if they made this jug in amber? <slaps hand onto forehead!!> What an idiot! :lol:
Not sure why the recipient of my email says 'valumatkeraava' isn't written properly, it's exactly as in the book, give or take a few dots over the a's. :?
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Ah, so they did make them in different colours.
I'm not sure if that helps or confuses things further? :lol:
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Max,
Thanks for that!
So it was made in green.
Here are some more photos:
Top (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2287)
Spout (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2288)
Base (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2286)
Nic,
The one you've just posted does look significantly different, certainly enough to be a different manufacturer. Especially the handle, much more curved and lower down too.
I've just found another one on Huuto, with the triangular shaped handle and sharper base profile:
http://www.huuto.net/fi/showitem.php3?itemid=33183532
The fact it's in Finland is possibly a good sign?
I think it's very difficult to judge the significance of some the variations. I remember a thread some time ago about some quite striking differences in Riihimäki moulds. *If* the green one is Riihimäki, then it must be late, based on the dates given by the museum; so possibly there where differences from the early ones shown in the catalogues. :roll:
Max, which of the a's have dots on in valumatkeraava? One of the online dictionaries has a word "valumalli" which translates as moulding/casting/foundry pattern.
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Nic,
The one you've just posted does look significantly different, certainly enough to be a different manufacturer. Especially the handle, much more curved and lower down too.
I've just found another one on Huuto, with the triangular shaped handle and sharper base profile:
http://www.huuto.net/fi/showitem.php3?itemid=33183532
The fact it's in Finland is possibly a good sign?
Oh, I didn't suspect mine of being Riihimaki for a moment - just in the same style. The handle, colour, glass thickness and spout are all completely wrong.
With regard the jug in Finland - I'm not sure. Everytime one of these jugs pops up on eBay UK (and there's one seller who's had a fair few of them.... 'gingertom...' something-or-other) they get snapped up by Finnish buyers. So there will be a few of the UK jugs with triangular handles and angled bases floating around on the Finnish market, I guess.
I just find it strange that there's an abundance of these jug sets in the UK and so few in Finland that they have to buy them in.
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With regard the jug in Finland - I'm not sure. Everytime one of these jugs pops up on eBay UK ... they get snapped up by Finnish buyers. So there will be a few of the UK jugs with triangular handles and angled bases floating around on the Finnish market, I guess.
LOL didn't think of that! :oops:
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I had another email from the Glass Museum:
Hello again!
Now I understand what "valumat keräävä" mens. It means that if it fall down
drops from a goblet or jug this foot plate will collect those drops.
I have not seen Harlekiini in amber colour.
There is no book about Tamara Aladin´s glass production, sorry.
The 'foot plate' refers to other items in the Harlekiinit range. :) She only says she hasn't SEEN Harlekiini in amber...not a definitive answer really. :?
No books there on Tamara Aladin either. :(
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I'll see if I can barter down the price of the jug set in amber when I'm next there. I'll take along my Whitefriars catalogues and point out to them that they're wrong about its origins - should help me lever a good price on it. Because I'm intrigued now. :lol:
And I can dream that's it's super-rare Harlekiini.... haha