Glass Message Board

Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on September 24, 2010, 07:57:15 PM

Title: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ID = Loetz Astglas,Dark Heliotrope
Post by: flying free on September 24, 2010, 07:57:15 PM
..inside crackle glass?  And would I find this in Astglas decor for example?
Also I have not found any Astglas in blue - has anyone else seen an example in blue please?
I have a vase/bowl that has absolutely loads of gold 'speckles' in  it - I'm not sure how to describe it but it reminds me of Italian pieces I have seen - looks like someone has gone made with a glitter tube and some is sprinkles and some splodges but all very subtle. I feel it is Bohemian but have not been able to find any examples that have this.
I've searched for ages for this one, but it is very difficult to see detail on the net.
Many thanks for your help.
m
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: jinxi on September 24, 2010, 08:36:47 PM
Any chance of posting a photo - sounds stunning!

Veronica
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: flying free on September 24, 2010, 08:52:16 PM
struggling to get pics to look representative as it all reflects everywhere!
It has a polished pontil mark as shown in base shot with gold.
6 inches wide by 4 1/2 inches and 3 1/2 inches high.  It is open crackle i.e. uncased (sorry finding it hard to describe it) but isn't 'rough', however I'm sure it's not a pattern impressed, it's definitely blown crackle.
thank you for looking
m
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: flying free on September 24, 2010, 08:54:24 PM
two more pics
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: jinxi on September 24, 2010, 09:55:36 PM
Absolutely stunning - reminds me of this http://www.barovier.com/s_company/museo_itemdet.asp?idprod=146 but pretty sure its not!  Have you tried sending a photo to the very helpful Loetz team?  Might be worth a try! 

Best of luck with your quest

Veronica
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: flying free on September 24, 2010, 10:12:30 PM
thanks for the fabulous link Veronica  - gorgeous pieces on there. 
No I haven't asked yet.  I've been determinedly trying to id this myself, but I've finally given up the ghost.  I think it could be Loetz astglas but it isn't signed (well not one I can find) and I thought it would be if it were given the timeline (though I might have read that incorrectly).  And I can't find an example in this colour.  I have found a piece that is simply attributed as uranium crackle that looks incredibly similar though, also I think a Loetz piece (if I remember correctly - I've looked for so long I may be confused) .
And frustratingly  I can't find a shape match either. 
m
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: jinxi on September 24, 2010, 10:27:02 PM
Hi again, there was a query posted yesterday headed 'New vase don't even know what to call the technique' or similar - not the same but similar and may give you some pointers to other possibile avenues of research!

Veronica
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: flying free on September 24, 2010, 10:38:50 PM
thanks - yes I did look at that thread and it's probably what prompted me to post this in the end.
I have been through every decor on the Loetz site and I think I must have looked at every picture on the net of any of the noted Bohemian glassmakers  vases :thud: and the nearest I can get is Astglas, however all the pics I have seen have been gold or orange and I can't get a clear close look at the detail of the crackle.

Glaskilian is a favourite site of mine as well - lovely glass on there and a great library of examples. 
I haven't looked at Leerdam or Maastricht though, but I'm not sure that feels right.  I'll go and have a pootle round and see what I can find.
thanks again.
m
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: jinxi on September 24, 2010, 10:57:04 PM
Meant to add to the other listing the possibility of Moser - looked at an old auction catalogue yesterday and a piece caught my eye which was Moser by Leuchars who had come from Leerdam (I think) and worked on technically complex pieces in this line. That particular piece was signed - I don't know whether they all are but a possible other avenue to explore! 
 
Veronica
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: obscurities on September 24, 2010, 11:21:00 PM
Hi there,

I have copied a couple of your images and am sending them out to the group working with me on the website for thoughts. I will let you know if anyone has an ID. 

What about the underside? A pontil? Polished or rough ground?  As far as Loetz signatures go, most is not signed, most examples that you see that are signed are not true Loetz sigs.  As a matter of fact, if I see a description of a piece that says it is signed, I am almost always immediately suspicious.

Interesting piece....  I think definitely Czech/Bohemian.....  The closeups do having a striking similarity in some ways to Astglas. Astglass was produced in three colors. Candia (Gold or light Amber colored), Orange, and a color referenced as dark Heliotrope, which would fall in the color range of a dark blue. I have personally never seen an example..... I have never seen an example of Astglas with aventurine/mica in it though.

I'll let you know what everyone says.... 

Craig
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: flying free on September 24, 2010, 11:27:25 PM
Thank you Craig.  The pontil mark is polished and I've shown it as best I can is as per the base shot showing the gold.
the shape is more difficult to show, it  bulges out front and back and to the sides.  It's a great shape, very tactile piece as it isn't oval.  Hard to explain  ::)  but I'll try and do another shot of the base and shape.  There are six pulls on the rim.  Two front and back and one each side.
The only other thing I could come up with was Durand where the crackle looks similar, but  a) that seems to be (I couldn't find many examples though) a colour on white which this isn't b) I couldn't see if the examples had gold in them and c) none had pulled rims.  
These pics are taken without a flash under evening light as that stops the reflections.  The orangey colour you see is the gold.  The pontil mark is the best I can do I'm afraid.
thanks again.
m
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: antiquerose123 on September 25, 2010, 04:58:46 AM
Super Vase !!!!!!  :hiclp: :hiclp:

I know nothing at all - and any search that I did -- all I could  find (kinda) close was Loetz Papillon or Kralik Crackele.....and these are *only* guesses.....

 :spls: :pb:
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: obscurities on September 25, 2010, 06:07:02 AM
Hello, I am thrilled to tell you that what you have is a piece of Loetz Astglas in Dark Heliotrope.  It is a decor which is quite rare. I had never seen an image of, or an example of the decor before, but it was confirmed to be such by a member of our group.  Great find, and a real treasure.

I would love some large format images of the piece for use on the site!!  I checked several of my references and I could not find an image of it anywhere.

It was not until I re-read the description of the decor in the English edition of Cantz before posting earlier ,that I became aware that it also came in blue.  

I am :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Congratulations

Craig
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: jinxi on September 25, 2010, 07:26:40 AM
Delighted for you and delighted myself to have seen photos of something I shall probably never see again!

Just take care of it!

Veronica
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: jinxi on September 25, 2010, 11:06:04 AM
P.S. Just out of interest, I had been watching this ebay listing the other week, now finished, a bit of damage, so I didn't bid, but have a look at ebay number 250697371794

Also, a lot of gold, so is this the same, Astglas, but in a different colour?

Veronica
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: flying free on September 25, 2010, 01:55:54 PM
 :thud:  :o Craig what can I say ...
...thank you so much and thanks also to whoever id'd it for me at your end :hug: I'm thrilled.
I've now carefully taken it out of the Wii playing sitting room and children's reach and put it away.
I will take some high res images for you of course - do I just resize them to make them larger before sending them do you know?
Many thanks again
m
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: obscurities on September 25, 2010, 04:05:19 PM
Veronica, the auction you referenced is not Astglas in a different color. I am ot sure what it is, but it is not a Loetz piece.

M, I will send you an email....  I am very happy for you.....  It is a fabulous piece of glass....

I also wanted to add that even in the Loetz Musterschnitte there are only around 5000 of the 50,000+ known shapes shown. I looked there to see if I could identify the shape and could not....

Craig
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: jinxi on September 25, 2010, 05:07:56 PM
Thank you Craig, just interested to hear what you had to say!

Veronica
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: antiquerose123 on September 25, 2010, 11:33:42 PM
 :hiclp: :chky: :hiclp: :chky:  :hiclp: :thup:

Good For you....and for me to have a Chance to be able to see it.  CONGRATS!!   Glad to hear the ID on it.....and least I was (sort of ??) looking in the same direction....as a (guess...).  Again Congrats  :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Super Vase !!!!!!  :hiclp: :hiclp:    I know nothing at all - and any search that I did -- all I could  find (kinda) close was Loetz Papillon or Kralik Crackele.....and these are *only* guesses.....


I was just trying to help IF I could. 

Again Congrats !!!!!

Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 26, 2010, 11:32:13 AM
Lovely piece, but just one small but important point. The glitter is not gold; it's copper. Aventurine is made by putting copper powder in molten glass and then breaking the cold glass into chips for marvering on to an item. Aventurine is not really workable for use on its own.
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: flying free on September 26, 2010, 06:24:44 PM
thanks Christine.  I have been reading lots of posts about the use of avventurine and gold leaf and dust etc.  and looked carefully at this bowl before I posted.  I'm not totally sure that it is avventurine (unless of course the photo taken in the dark to show the splodges as orangey indicates they are copper rather than gold as gold leaf/foil wouldn't show up that colour taken without a flash?  Does avventurine break up into what looks literally like glitter sprinkles all in the glass? it is all over not just where the splodges are and it literally is little sprinkles.  It doesn't look the same as my avventurine Nason box, but does look similar to the large red Murano bowl I have that I honestly don't think is avventurine but is gold foil/leaf - intrigued -  I'll do another compare later.
thanks
m
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 26, 2010, 07:30:18 PM
It's aventurine; read Craig's post.
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: flying free on September 26, 2010, 08:23:56 PM
Thanks Christine :) I had originally named my pics avventurine but wasn't sure if that was right.
I've done some other close ups. (mods please feel free to delete if too many pics on this thread :-[  )

m
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ....
Post by: obscurities on September 26, 2010, 08:57:37 PM
The closeup images, to me, definitely appear to be Aventurine, or copper.

It also exhibits the common little "clusters" found using Aventurine, as it is produced as a separate component and used as an ingredient when making a piece.

Craig
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ID = Loetz Astglas,Dark Heliotrope
Post by: flying free on January 06, 2013, 10:50:16 PM
After I'd posted this thread I carefully put this vase away and haven't looked at it since.  However, just before Christmas I bought a beautiful vase that I also didn't want to have out.  For Christmas OH surprised me and  bought me a glass cabinet with light in so I could put my 'precious' pieces on display safely (I think he's given in to my glass obsession  ;D ).
We made the unit this weekend and I finally got the vase out again.  I think I've managed to take much better pictures of it.  It looks fantastic out on display now  :)

m
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ID = Loetz Astglas,Dark Heliotrope
Post by: obscurities on January 06, 2013, 11:03:34 PM
I love this piece.... It is nice you have it out to be enjoyed now..... 

Craig
Title: Re: Two questions - did Loetz or Kralik use gold ID = Loetz Astglas,Dark Heliotrope
Post by: flying free on January 06, 2013, 11:21:04 PM
Thank you  :)  There's something to be said for putting glass away and not seeing it for over a year.  It was like having a new piece of glass all over again.  Also now I appreciate a little more about the glass making process etc (and can actually recognise aventurine now lol) , I think I love it more than when I first saw it. 
m