Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: Dglass123 on November 23, 2007, 07:10:26 PM
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I know it's Italian (notice the sticker on the bottom) but who made it??? Any help would be very much appreciated.
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h293/dean60068/italiancandleholders002.jpg)
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h293/dean60068/italiancandleholders005.jpg)
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h293/dean60068/italiancandleholders003.jpg)
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I found it...For anyone who was wondering the winner isssssssssssssss....Murano
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;D ;D ;D how did you find out ? what site? they look more Scandi to me, anyway, well done.
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They look pressed to me, which is how the candleholder would have been shaped, then attached to the pontil rod for shaping and finishing the rim. Possibly swung. Interesting combination of manufacturing techniques. A lot of intelligent and creative design has gone into them.
I would like to see what happens when one is knocked over with an inch long lit candle in it. I suspect that it could be surprisingly safe, with little or no spillage of molten wax. And with all the weight at the base and a wide base ring, they could actually be quite difficult to knock over.
So, I wonder who the genius designer was. And why aren't they in every shop in the High Street?
Bernard C. 8)
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Well... from what I,ve read about Marano glass is, each piece is hand made in Italy and each piece is a one of a kind. Even the two pieces you are looking at aren't exactly the same. One is 18" tall and the other is 18 1/2".
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Murano is a place (a small archipelago off the coast of Venice) that houses a number glassmakers with a wide variety of output, rather than being a single manufacturer with a fixed method of production. Much of it over the years has been very much mass-produced for the tourist and export trades - into which category your very quirky candleholders fall.
I would probably refrain from using phrases such as "one of a kind", though... because they were probably made in their (tens of / hundreds of) thousands. And even machine-made pressed glass can have some variation between individual pieces.
But don't let that detract from them; if you like them, then you like them, regardless of how they were made and in what quantities. :)
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Dglass123 — Ooops, but I was being honest, and showing unusual enthusiasm. I think that the last time I was so taken with something new to me was here (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,8995.0.html), and this was both pressed and completed by hand, just like your candleholders.
It is actually relatively uncommon to find completely hand-made glass, made without the use of moulds or formers in any way, from Murano, elsewhere in Italy, or anywhere else. I had the greatest pleasure watching one of those lovely crystal female torsos being sculpted on one of my visits to Murano, and that was completely hand-made, which explains why they are so costly (two skilled glassmakers took over half an hour).
By the way, after I posted above, I got out a ladle, to see how it would fall, and I'm sure that my speculation has some merit. Have you tried it?
Bernard C. 8)
Nic — Murano is an island, two islands, three islands, or seven islands, depending on how big you want the gap to be before you regard two pieces of land as separate islands.
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I hate to argue, but these don't look like Murano glass to me. They have more of a mainland Italy look...
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shandiane78 — I love a good argument, so, rather sadly, I have to agree. In my opinion a Murano attribution for these candleholders is somewhere between most unlikely and impossible; like you I would be looking elsewhere in Italy.
Bernard C. 8)
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Your right. Saying "one of a kind" is not the correct wording. Saying each piece is unique in thier own way would probably be better. I was just trying to get across that they are not stamped out in a production line. As for these pieces not being Marano, I could only find one other piece that looks the same to me on the internet. http://www.rubylane.com/shops/eyesnglas/item/2004 Most of the information I gathered is from library books.
Bernard-
As for trying to tip them over there is no way I'll try that. I dont even like getting to close to them. Sometimes I'm like a bull in a china shop.
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Hi Dglass123,
Your link shows a teal piece much the same as yours. However, the item description is disingenuous. The "Made in Italy" label is no indication that the item was made in Murano, and the seller is (imho) inaccurate in suggesting that is the case.
Regards,
Marcus
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Good point Marcus - I have several pieces of Italian glass with the exact same label and as you say that does not automatically mean they are Murano production. I tend to agree with Bernard and Shandiane that these are more likely Empoli (mainland Italy). One has to bear in mind that Ruby Lane is akin to eBay - sellers can make whatever claims and jump to whatever conclusions they want and attributions are not necessarily correct or accurate.
Whilst these are nice items and, as Bernard says good pieces of design, they're not particularly intricate or 'special' - just a pair of reasonably nice, useful candleholders made somewhere in Italy.
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Don't Murano labels generally have Murano on them rather than just Italy?
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Anything done in bottle amber is likely to be from Empoli, more specifically from Vetreria Empoli or Toso Bagnoli and not from Murano. I cannot see anything in the above discussion that would point at Murano or justify a 35 $ price tag.
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OK... I'm just trying to find out where this was made. The link that I entered in my last message is not my piece and I don't care if that person was trying to sell it for a million dollars. I'm trying to get some history on the pieces I purchased and after reading the responses it looks like I have a good start.
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It might be worth contacting Empoli as they seem to be appealing to collectors now http://www.vetreriediempoli.it/home.cfm?lingua=EN
Toso Bagnoli has little on-line info in English http://www.comune.empoli.fi.it/cdv/museo/vetrerie/toso.htm
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Thank you
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They look pressed to me, which is how the candleholder would have been shaped, then attached to the pontil rod for shaping and finishing the rim. Possibly swung. Interesting combination of manufacturing techniques. A lot of intelligent and creative design has gone into them.
I'm not sure about the pressed idea. I'm going email the link to Adam D. But you can never tell from an image. I think that you are right about them being swung, though.
So, I wonder who the genius designer was. And why aren't they in every shop in the High Street?
Bernard C. 8)
I suspect that the genius designer was better at coming up with ideas than finding a way to execute them. I think that they have been blown and sheared at an angle and then swung. Tricky to do and even more tricky to do on a regular basis. This could make them rare in the uncommon but not valuable sense.
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Adam — I visualised it coming out of the mould as a lop-sided bowl, something like a Dartington avocado dish, with the candleholder complete in the base. The attachment to the pontil rod would provide a heat sink to stop the candleholder becoming mis-shapen when the upper part of the bowl was re-heated.
Bernard C. 8)
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Thanks, Adam, I probably would have missed this one (for confused newcomers, Adam D. is me and Adam A. is "aa").
I can't see how this thing could have started life as anything but a pressing because of the candleholder bit. After that it's obviously been stretched, but just how is a puzzle. Two puzzles actually, the other one being how it was held for re-heating. Is it a trick of the light or is there a scar from a blower's-type pontil? I can see no trace of grinding and polishing on the bottom of the mark from a presser's-type iron punty. If the former then this is the first time I have seen such a method used on a pressed article. Maybe I should get out more! It does suggest pressing and hand-blowing skills working together.
It could, of course, in theory have been gripped by the bulbous part but without leaving a mark? I doubt it. Some sort of vacuum chuck might have done the trick and if any form of automation were involved it would be something like that. Guessing there, of course.
So far as the lop-sided stretch is concerned, yes, Bernard, it could have been pressed with a slanted top but as you know, only to a limited extent. Lop-sided heating would then be applied followed perhaps by swinging. That's where, as we used to say in court, I can claim no expertise. Over to Adam A.
Adam, is it possible by swinging to get something to come out as flat and thin as that? Wouldn't some sort of pulling or tooling be needed and could it be done without marking?
Adam D.
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Adam, is it possible by swinging to get something to come out as flat and thin as that? Wouldn't some sort of pulling or tooling be needed and could it be done without marking?
Adam D.
It's possible but would be very tricky and the thin end would be quite likely to flip over. I would expect a high failure rate, even if one had special tools.
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They look not familiar, so my opinion is that they aren't made here (Murano-Venice). Or, as other possiblity, they can be a custom production for a special order. I have several custom productions of objects far from the usual venetian glass style and many architets and designer search in Murano somebody with the skills to realize their ideas.
Sincerely
Alex
http://www.artofvenice.com (http://www.artofvenice.com)