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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Scandinavian Glass => Topic started by: Pinkspoons on March 11, 2007, 12:06:03 AM

Title: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Pinkspoons on March 11, 2007, 12:06:03 AM
There's a set of smokey glasses being sold on eBay as signed Holmegaard, which aren't:

HERE (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190090276766&rd=1&rd=1)

I've contacted the seller to voice my doubts - that the colour is wrong, as is the signature - and whilst being pleasant enough, they refuse to entertain the thought that thy've been Dremelled. They also have a Holmegaard 'Aristocrat' decanter for sale with apparently the same signature - on the stopper, of all places!

Any clue who actually made the glasses?
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Sue C on March 11, 2007, 05:17:26 PM
Should they have a little gold sticker MADE IN POLAND  ;)

Mod: Yes, I've recently seen these, in a set with wider glasses and a decanter, with the little gold sticker and "Made in Poland" - Cathy
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Ivo on March 11, 2007, 09:21:51 PM
I'd think one of the Zwiesel companies may have been to blame. The colour is just a tad on the brown side (not cool grey or bluish). Could also be Empoli of course...
btw - ever come across signed tableware from Holmegaard before?
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Pinkspoons on March 11, 2007, 10:01:28 PM
Some decanters were signed in the early-mid 1950s with just the Lutken monogram and a date - but they're few and far between in number - and select tableware (decanters and glasses) was initialled 'HG' followed by a number during 1971-85. Never found any fully signed glasses before this date, though. Even so, the glasses in the auction are only signed 'PL' - on it's own, it's not a known HG signature. The Aristocrat decanter from the same seller apparently has a monogram and a date (1958)... I've had several Aristocrat decanters, but never with a signature - not even a limited edition 1958 silver-mounted one I own. And I've certainly never heard of a signature on a stopper!

In any case, the signatures don't seem to match the known Lutken monogram, judging by the seller's caginess when I asked if they matched the example of a Lutken monogram on my site. Instead he just said that there was bound to be variation in signatures and colouring during Lutken's tenure at Holmegaard.
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Pip on March 12, 2007, 12:47:39 PM
LOL oooops - I've only just caught up with this thread and I emailed the seller about these glasses also! Oh dear, he must think the Holmegaard police are after him  ;D  well, never mind, I thought exactly the same as you Nic, the colour is too brown as opposed to grey, the sig is iffy and I've never come across any signed HG tableware either.  I also suggested he take a look at the PL signed pieces I have on my site for comparative purposes. 
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Pinkspoons on March 12, 2007, 03:46:09 PM
Probablt won't do much good - I just got shrugged off. But it never hurts to try!

I just feel sorry for the bidders on the phony glasses and the vandalised decanter.

Looking through the seller's past auctions, he's not averse to selling any old tatt as Holmegaard. *sigh*
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Sue C on March 12, 2007, 04:32:21 PM
Nic, isn't that decanter similar to Dartington? :-\
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Pinkspoons on March 12, 2007, 05:00:11 PM
Not sure - I'm not terribly familiar with Dartington designs or colours. I'm always a little lost when I venture outside of the safety of Holmegaard.  ;D
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Sue C on March 12, 2007, 05:09:19 PM
I thunk they did a more bulbous one with a hole in the stopper?
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Max on March 12, 2007, 07:37:40 PM
I'm probably preaching to the converted here. You do get a 'signature' or rather a number on stoppers that matches a number on the base of the decanter sometimes.  I'm talking generally, not Holmegaard.  But you probably knew that already.  :-[ 

Apparently, the matching glasses to the Aristocrat decanter are called Scanada...just thought I'd throw in something else you knew already.   ;D ;D




Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Pinkspoons on March 12, 2007, 08:14:29 PM
Apparently Aristocrat had it's own matching glass - but I've never seen them, just read mention of them in an old article David E. forwarded to me recently. It seems production didn't last for long (c. 1956-59), and instead the decanter was put together with the earlier (1955) Canada range.

Such mixing and matching isn't entirely unheard of within Holmegaard, as a similar thing happened with the York range by Per Lutken.

Incidentally, I'm not sure where the Canada / Scanada difference comes from. All original packaging I've got for the range states 'Canada'.  ???
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: robbo on March 12, 2007, 10:26:39 PM
On the Scanada v. Canada issue, Andy McConnell uses both names in his book (on p.148). In the accompanying advert from Pottery Gazette (which shows the Aristocrat Decanter with (S)canada glasses), the names of the ranges are printed at the bottom. Unfortunately the name of the glasses is almost entirely cropped off, leaving only the tops of the letters, but there is just enough left to make out, I think, an additional curved letter at the beginning.   ???
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Pinkspoons on March 12, 2007, 10:49:46 PM
I think you're right!

Although, confusingly, the Pottery Gazette refers to the range as 'Canada' in a 1959 article. The advert in McConnell dates somewhere between 1965-71 (does it give a specific date anywhere in the credits? I can't spot it).

Was there a temporary change of name during that period, I wonder? I have packaging pre-65 with 'Canada' and post-71 with the same. Nothing from that middle period, though.  ???

Hasty edit: I lied - I have a boxed set of cordials from the Kastrup-Holmegaard era, also Canada.  ::)
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: robbo on March 12, 2007, 11:17:47 PM
I suppose without a boxed Scanada set and/or other documentary evidence it's impossible to say when or in which market the different names were used. It certainly seems to be quite a common occurance—I've just got a boxed set of 70s Arabia glasses called 'Quartet' on the box but in all my books they're called 'Contact'.  ??? ???
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Pinkspoons on March 13, 2007, 12:15:59 AM
I've not found any correlation between location and name change for Canada - my three eras of the glasses come from a dealer in Denmark for the pre-65s, a defunct glass store in the US selling off new-old-stock for the 1965-71s, and a collector in Britain who bought them in Heals in 1973 for the later ones!

It'll probably turn out to be a typo on a couple of adverts that's the source of the confusion...  ;D
Title: Re: Signed "Holmegaard" on eBay...
Post by: Pinkspoons on March 13, 2007, 09:50:30 AM
Max has just confirmed for me that it does say Scanada in the advert, and that it hails from 1967. Thanks, Max.  :)