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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: antiquerose123 on November 12, 2007, 03:32:55 AM

Title: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: antiquerose123 on November 12, 2007, 03:32:55 AM
 :chky: Hi, I have this bowl that is scalloped.  One of the scalloped edges is flipped in.  I believe it to be Murano, and possibly Fratelli Toso. 

I did find a picture like it in "Leslie Pina book -- Fifties Glass" - Page 54, quote: "Scalloped bowl, black glass internally decorated...encased in a clear glass, with one of the 12 rim scallops folded inward, unsigned, in the Collection of Shirley Friedland."

I had always referred to this as a black bowl, but ONLY today did I hold it up to the light, and believe it to be the color *Amethyst*, rather than Black....learn something new all the time.  Does this color make a difference at all ?  Please Advise.

Am I correct/incorrect?  Any info as age, confirmation of maker, color, and value?  Or any other input at all  :-\

Thanking you in advance...

antiquerose123 (rose)
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: Anne on November 12, 2007, 03:57:52 AM
Most black glass isn't black at all Rose, it's actually very dark purple. Holding up to a strong light source you can see the purple colour, but normally it will look black.
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: antiquerose123 on November 12, 2007, 11:51:43 AM
Had this pic in here from before, so I resized this one better, for a bigger pix.....this is how I should MUST do from now on....lol

Better...much better...

Rose
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: Carolyn Preston on November 12, 2007, 03:14:17 PM
The pictures worked!  :chky: :chky: :hiclp: :hiclp: :chky: :hiclp: :chky: :hiclp: :chky: :hiclp:

Well done AR!  ;D

Carolyn
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: antiquerose123 on November 18, 2007, 07:41:55 AM
Just thought I would also mention I got this for .50 cents at a garage sale here.  This is the piece that started it all.  When I saw -- I thought I sure did not need a bowl.....but for .50 cents (it was so beautiful) I had to buy it.

 
So be it...now I am always searching for more Murano... ;)



Rose (antiquerose)
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: shandiane78 on December 28, 2007, 06:49:22 PM
I don't know who made it, but I did see a similar one on ebay. The ebay one is listed as Barovier or Seguso, but looks more like F. Toso to me, though I could be wrong. Item number 320196361834.
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: TxSilver on December 28, 2007, 10:15:42 PM
I don't think the bowl is Fratelli Toso. I saw a bowl like this that still had a label a little while back. Unfortunately, I can't remember which label it was now. If I remember right, the label was Italy, but not Murano.

Anita
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: antiquerose123 on December 28, 2007, 10:41:57 PM
I did find a picture like it in "Leslie Pina book -- Fifties Glass" - Page 54, quote: "Scalloped bowl, black glass internally decorated...encased in a clear glass, with one of the 12 rim scallops folded inward, unsigned, in the Collection of Shirley Friedland."     End of Quote.
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: langhaugh on December 29, 2007, 01:14:38 AM
Rose, The bowl in Pina (it's on p. 49 in my edition) is a similar shape but made differently, with canes and bits of murrhines. Two pages further on there is one, which, although not the same shape, is more like yours in spirit. It might be where Anita saw the label "Made in Italy."

It would be interesting to start a thread posting the fist piece of Murano, or glass, each of us bought.

David
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: antiquerose123 on December 29, 2007, 04:42:45 AM
Rose, The bowl in Pina (it's on p. 49 in my edition) is a similar shape but made differently, with canes and bits of murrhines. Two pages further on there is one, which, although not the same shape, is more like yours in spirit. It might be where Anita saw the label "Made in Italy."

It would be interesting to start a thread posting the fist piece of Murano, or glass, each of us bought.

David

Yes, the one book where I referr to page 54, was printed in like 1993 or something.  I just got a newer version of the same book here tonite, and this same pic I referred to in the 1993 book date (page 54) is the same pic as the one in the newer book ( Fifties Glass Revised & Expanded 2nd Edition - Leslie Pina - 2000) the picture is on page 49.  I am looking at the exact book you are referring to right now (the same year/edition).  It is all the same pic, just an older version of the book....but lets both refer to the newest Edition now, that I have right in front of me....

The picture on page 51 ( Fifties Glass Revised & Expanded 2nd Edition - Leslie Pina - 2000) is a "four lobed bowl - Black glass with polychrome swirls and copper metallic inclusions."  While the one on page 49 is "a scalloped bowl....encased in clear glass with one of 12 rim scallops folded inward."

So even though my bowl has copper swirls in it (as in pic on page 51)......To me...the style/shape are more in line with the design/style/shape of the one on page 49 with the scalloped edges, with one folded inward.

It's like the two, mashed together to make mine....scalloped bowl, with one rim folded inward, but with aventurine swirls in the design.....

Gosh.....this is confusing......HELP.  You are right. 

Now for another question (maybe stupid one)...what is the difference between amythest, and Black amythest...is amythest not purple?  As I just discovered I thought this bowl was black, but when you hold it up to the light, it is amythest......now is that just amythest, or what is called Black Amythest. 

I have another Leslie Pina book here called Purple Glass, and in the cover she refers to two different types of Amythest, as in purple, and as in Black.... :spls:  How do you tell which amythest is which????
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 30, 2007, 12:43:42 PM
Amethyst is described as a moderate purple - the same as the gemstone. Black amethyst glass is glass that appears black until you hold it up to the light when it is seen to be actually purple. True black glass is rare and most is really very concentrated purple, brown or green
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: David E on December 30, 2007, 02:48:09 PM
Then there is sun-purpling, which was originally clear glass :spls: :D ;)
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: antiquerose123 on December 30, 2007, 07:47:21 PM
 :huh: :huh:

So now with this bowl......I always thought was black glass, until I held up to the light (See the photo posted here). 

So then it turns a purple color.....so would I be right in assuming this glass on this bowl would be considered *Black Amethyst* then...as it looks black until you hold it up to the light.  Is this a correct assumption on this bowl of mine? 

And is black amethyst more rarer than regular amethyst.....if such a thing as rarer here....How do these two colors compare?  And how does one define which is which.....geez.....Help?  :mus:
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 31, 2007, 08:45:23 AM
If it looks purple without holding it up to the light you can describe it as purple or amethyst. If it looks black then that is what it is supposed to be - black. It just has a very high concentration of colorant, purple in this case, so that it looks black
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: inca on January 02, 2008, 12:03:41 AM

I had always referred to this as a black bowl, but ONLY today did I hold it up to the light, and believe it to be the color *Amethyst*, rather than Black....learn something new all the time.  Does this color make a difference at all ?  Please Advise.
antiquerose123 (rose)

Hi Rose,

Regarding amethyst. Have you seen these two topics?

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5379.0.html
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,13917.0.html


regards,

Ingela  
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: johnphilip on January 02, 2008, 09:23:57 AM
Near black i like to call Aubergine i feel Amethyst is lighter.
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: bidda on January 06, 2008, 04:39:14 AM
it's been my understanding that a piece that appears opaque black, until held to strong light (when the purple hue becomes visable) is considered "black amethyst" glass. please correct me if i'm mistaken.

bidda
Title: Re: Another POSSIBLE Fratelli Toso?
Post by: antiquerose123 on May 22, 2013, 10:08:40 PM

Just an update of a PHOTOS of this item....as they are old pics taken with a Cell phone BEFORE.

So just updating old small photos here.....and added the size as I do not think I ever said the size

~ 10 inches Wide
~ 3.5 inches Tall

Thanks