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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: pwayne on October 11, 2009, 03:49:37 PM

Title: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please ID= Stuart & Sons
Post by: pwayne on October 11, 2009, 03:49:37 PM
Hi Folks,
 I spotted this Art Nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase in the US and repatriated it back to England. Anyone know  the maker, i suspect either Stuart or Powell but as its not really my speciality i thought i would ask and try to pin down a maker. The vase stands 5 3/4" tall and is 8 1/2" in dia. Cheers Wayne.
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: Ivo on October 11, 2009, 04:05:10 PM
I'd be worried about the hard glare iridescence, the absence of wear on the stand ring and the donut prunts - none of which points at Art Nouveau.
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: pwayne on October 11, 2009, 04:28:08 PM
Hi Ivo,
 No the vase is not iridescent, and the trailed decoration protrudes from the base to the pontil and they have taken all the wear, Its period glass and yes i agree more Arts and Crafts than Nouveau, we were more restrained over here, but it would still could be classed as Nouveau over here. Cheers Wayne.
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: pwayne on October 11, 2009, 05:37:43 PM
I see why you thought it was iridescent now, its reflections from the telly, the wife was watching the Simpson's while i was taking the pics!
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: Ivo on October 11, 2009, 06:36:51 PM
In some ways I hope I'm wrong about it being a recent piece. Because if it isn't it's a cuspidor.
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: keith on October 11, 2009, 06:50:46 PM
If it is it's enough to make one spit,beautiful piece though,Keith
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: pwayne on October 11, 2009, 08:31:26 PM
Ah so an Arts and crafts spittoon then, something to hawk in whilst doing a bit of Repoussé work on your copper charger, thanks chaps, any guesses at a maker Keith. 
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: keith on October 11, 2009, 08:47:20 PM
It reminds me also of Stuart although their pieces seem lighter with a peacock feather type design,Powells I'm not familiar with but there are plenty out there that will know I'm sure,Keith.
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: azelismia on October 11, 2009, 10:36:54 PM
I don't think it's recent. the color and shape remind me of a stevens and williams piece I recently saw with a line drawing. it's not exactly the same but the color and basic design is similar. I agree though, older English.
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: Cathy B on October 12, 2009, 03:55:52 AM
Stuart is the first that comes to mind, but as you'll see in the following threads, many companies were responsible for similar pieces with the peacock feather decoration.

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,24368.0.html
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,76.msg219.html#msg219
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1901.20.html
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: Bernard C on October 12, 2009, 05:49:09 AM
Wayne — There's a good match to the low level peacock's eye trailing and other features of your piece in Gulliver, positively attributed by Mervyn Gulliver, working from the original factory pattern books, to Stuart, and dated c.1900.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: pwayne on October 12, 2009, 07:24:58 PM
Thanks for that info Bernard, it looks as though my initial suspicions were right. So for now then i shall give it a "most likely" attribution to Stuart, thanks again Wayne.
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: Andy on October 14, 2009, 08:52:45 PM
Hi Wayne,
just having a dig around some of the Bohemian sites, Eddie, Alfred etc.
and happened upon this site,
http://sites.google.com/site/bohemianglassandmore/miscellaneous-identified-pieces

scroll down to 2 vases above the bottom of the page,
Stevens and Williams , its not far off ;)
Cheers
Andy
ps its a nice site, but cant find the collectors name anywhere??

PPS AHA!! Its Warren Galles site :thup: :hiclp: :hiclp: :hiclp:
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: Cathy B on October 14, 2009, 11:14:50 PM
Andy, that's quite a different pattern though. It doesn't have the peacock feather decoration at all and it's hard to tell whether the colour is a match.
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: keith on October 14, 2009, 11:56:02 PM
Despite what I said before I must agree with Andy,Stuarts 'peacock' glass has a lighter appearance with the applied decor' standing less proud than the Stevens and Williams piece on Andy's link which matches, in my opinion, with  Wayne's,Keith
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: azelismia on October 15, 2009, 03:56:58 AM
of course, it was Warren's site. yes, that is the piece I was referring to. that style of glass is not usually my thing so I was having a hard time placing where I saw it.
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: pwayne on October 15, 2009, 08:04:47 PM
Yes the one on Warrens site does have similarities, and i know you cannot judge the colour accurately from different photos but they do have a very similar hue, and i thought identifying Iridescent Bohemian was difficult. Thanks again for everybody's input. Cheers Wayne.
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: Cathy B on October 16, 2009, 02:46:16 PM
Wayne, get hold of a copy of Victorian Decorative Glass: British Designs, 1850 - 1914, by Mervyn Gulliver, and compare with the vase on p. 89.

Mod: changed to correct my own spelling. It's 'Mervyn', not 'Mervin'.  :spls2:  
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: keith on October 16, 2009, 05:25:23 PM
After my previous blather I feel a total dork,will wait in future until the more learned among us have spoken!Keith.(what makes it worse is I've got the book)
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: nigel benson on October 17, 2009, 07:58:58 PM
Hi All,

Yes, Stuart & Sons, late ninetenth century design.

For a short essay on Arts & Crafts Glass and some photos of items from various British manufacturers, http://www.20thcentury-glass.org.uk/nigelbenson20thcenturyglass/id60.html (http://www.20thcentury-glass.org.uk/nigelbenson20thcenturyglass/id60.html)

(Moderators - None for sale!)

Nigel
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please
Post by: Bernard C on October 18, 2009, 06:52:37 AM
...   Yes, Stuart & Sons, late ninetenth century design.   ...

Nigel — Interesting that you refine Mervyn's date.   The earliest date I've found for peacock's eye trail decoration is the drawing submitted with the Stuart & Sons design registration of September 8, 1906.   It is not clear to me whether the decoration was part of the registration or not, so I can only conclude from this evidence that the decoration was designed by September 1906, in the same way as the Walsh registration of April 28, 1911 indicates a "by date" rather than an "on date" for that decoration.    How do you get back over half a decade earlier?

... and is this why Hajdamach omitted peacock's eye trail decoration?   Because he could not find any evidence to substantiate a popular late nineteenth century date for the design?   I believe it is fairly obvious that Hajdamach avoided controversy, and I've often wondered why I couldn't find any mention of this important decoration.

...   For a short essay on Arts & Crafts Glass and some photos of items from various British manufacturers, http://www.20thcentury-glass.org.uk/nigelbenson20thcenturyglass/id60.html (http://www.20thcentury-glass.org.uk/nigelbenson20thcenturyglass/id60.html)   ...

Fine for the novice or the glossy magazine, Nigel, and some extremely useful illustrated items, but in my opinion rather too broad-brush with unsubstantiated conclusions for this topic, which is all about the attribution of one particular item, and could be cited in an on-line auction description.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please ID = Stuart & Sons
Post by: nigel benson on October 19, 2009, 02:30:38 PM
Bernard,

I take it that you're using Gulliver, Hajdamach and the GA Blue Book? Or, perhaps you've been to the Records Office to find the information you refer to above? You do not share the source(s) that you are using for your conclusion of
Quote
the Stuart & Sons design registration of September 8, 1906.

You're quite right to be speciific about dating (when are we going out?) :) ::)  :-\ :)

Thank you so much for your spontaneous critique of my short essay. I never claimed it to be my magnum opus, in fact I aimed it specifically at the novice collector, many of whom frequent these pages, so your confirmation is gratefully received.

Nigel
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please ID = Stuart & Sons
Post by: Bernard C on October 19, 2009, 04:24:35 PM
Nigel — Gulliver p269 for Mervyn's copyright tracing of the original (which, for other readers, is why we can't reproduce it here).   Careless of me.

Unfortunately we've just missed Woburn's festival des huitres, so how about next autumn?  :kissy:

I'm glad you're pleased with my review — just let me know if you want any more.   ;D

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Art nouveau/Arts and Crafts vase, maker info please ID= Stuart & Sons
Post by: nigel benson on October 24, 2009, 12:06:58 AM
Quote
... and is this why Hajdamach omitted peacock's eye trail decoration?   Because he could not find any evidence to substantiate a popular late nineteenth century date for the design?   I believe it is fairly obvious that Hajdamach avoided controversy,

I realise that you are musing about the subject Bernard, but whilst I often wonder about what is behind the inclusion or exclusion of items, or topics, by an author, I realise it is pointless trying to make any assumptions about their thought processes, or decisions, that I cannot substantiate. So, if it is not possible check with that author, why bother?

Suffice to say that I would not have made my original statement if I felt it was misleading. Having done my own reading and research on the subject of teardrops, amongst other Arts & Crafts and Art Nouveau devices used on glass, I am confident in my assertion - especially since I haven't limited myself to the books I had on my shelf.

I explained about this, and a number of other features that allow us to determine the differences between manufacturers and the dating of their work in the talk(s) I gave to members of the Glass Association at Blackwell, back in July, at the beginning of the Powell Glass Exhibition (which, by the by, finishes on 1st Nov 2009).

Nigel