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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: flying free on January 01, 2010, 02:34:54 PM

Title: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on January 01, 2010, 02:34:54 PM
Either way it's very beautiful and has a minute chip in the base  ;D and cost me just 50p, but I'm interested to know so I can learn a bit more.
It is 12" high and the whole thing is satinised and green including the foot (from my reading I understood that these are normally clear? but then I saw one in 20th century glass DK which is yellow and seems to be entirely yellow including the foot).
Any help very much appreciated, or ideas on where to look for information on these and other Carlo Moretti satinato pieces.
Many thanks
m
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: dorian_graye on January 01, 2010, 02:49:23 PM
The Moretti satinato pieces I've owned had a clear, frosted base.  Maybe someone else has owned or seen otherwise.  I really like these vases.  They look great in a cluster of different sizes and colors; very mod.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: johnphilip on January 01, 2010, 05:40:59 PM
You can look in ebay completed listings i have sold about eight pieces in the last two weeks they went quite cheaply,  still one on at the moment and one more to list . jp       I D   stgeorgio.2007  ~  sorry just rushing out
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Pip on January 01, 2010, 06:17:44 PM
This shape and colour is absolutely fine for Carlo Moretti Satinato - I've had several in this shape, the last one  I owned was the standard pale blue in this shape.  I'm certain this one is alright. 

Here's one:-

http://www.pips-trip.co.uk/sold-glass-archives/italian-glass-1/showitem-MORETTIBLUE.aspx
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on January 01, 2010, 07:25:36 PM
Thank you for your replies.

Dorian yes, the ones I have seen always seemed clear and satinised.
JP I did have a look at your sold pieces - beautiful! Thanks for that.

Pip, many thanks.   I found your blue one too  :) (you have  great search response as pips-trip always comes up on my searches for mostly everything :hiclp:) .  I was just wondering because I hadn't found any with the same- colour foot or the height.  However, it 'looks right' in the person as it were.  I am delighted.  I know it has a small chip in the foot but hey, I can hang on until I find a perfect one.  Thank you again.

m
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: TxSilver on January 01, 2010, 08:00:02 PM
This shape and colour is absolutely fine for Carlo Moretti Satinato - I've had several in this shape, the last one  I owned was the standard pale blue in this shape.  I'm certain this one is alright. 

Here's one:-

http://www.pips-trip.co.uk/sold-glass-archives/italian-glass-1/showitem-MORETTIBLUE.aspx

What Pip said is right. Your vase looks like it could have been made in the late 1950s to me. Many of the pieces I see from that time are a single color and do not have the white (or other color) interior.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: dorian_graye on January 01, 2010, 08:07:25 PM
Not that this is a bible on Italian glass, but in Leslie Pina's book "Italian Glass: Century 20", there are three pages of varieties/variations on this vase and all have a clear or satin base.  I would be led to believe that the vases with the same color foot as the body would be reproductions.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Pip on January 01, 2010, 08:11:36 PM
Well of course you would. unless you owned one!
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: dirk. on January 01, 2010, 08:17:24 PM
Pip, I´ve missed you!  :kissy: A happy new year!
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Pip on January 01, 2010, 08:19:39 PM
 :kissy: backatcha Dirk.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Lustrousstone on January 01, 2010, 08:32:58 PM
The green looks the right green and other satinato Morretti items have either clear frosted or same colour feet. Looks good to me.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on January 01, 2010, 08:38:05 PM
Anita, Pip, Christine, many thanks! 

I saw another the same day, a different shape but one that I haven't found on my searches, and a green which was a  cross between bottle and teal, sort of jade I suppose.  Might have to go back and get that one just to research it.

m
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: dorian_graye on January 01, 2010, 11:47:51 PM
I would think that over three pages of variations on this vase, there would be at least one example of the vase with the same color foot as the body.  Possibly, the exceptions that other members if the forum did not have the Rosenthal-Netter label still attached?
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Pip on January 02, 2010, 12:00:58 AM
Possibly, the exceptions that other members if the forum did not have the Rosenthal-Netter label still attached?

I don't quite understand that sentence however you're aware I'm sure that Rosenthal-Netter were an American importer of Italian goods - not a manufacturer.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: keith on January 02, 2010, 02:48:28 AM
Sounds like people are getting a bit hot under the collar,so I'd thought I'd add a bit,this is a piece I posted awhile ago,some one suggested Moretti but after research I could not find anything that had a gloss interior,excuse nasty chip on the foot(17.5 ins high)Keith.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: langhaugh on January 02, 2010, 07:00:54 AM
Flying Free's piece looks good to me. I looked at my pieces, which all have the clear satinized base, as do the ones pictured in Pina. However, all mine are Rosenthal Netter, as are Pina's. I wonder if Anita has hit the nail on the head when she suggests that the solid coloured ones are earlier, mid to late 50's. I think Rosenthal Netter are a little later. I know I have one that has "Sunset 64" on the label. At the same time, it would be interesting to know if anyone has seen a piece with a coloured bases with a label on it. Finally, if I saw Flying Free's piece on for a decent price, I'd buy it.

David
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: johnphilip on January 02, 2010, 08:48:02 AM
Several of those i sold had the original Munich gold label and i believe the feet were same colour as the rest of the item and the latimo was strong and opaque i have had them many years, i have recently seen a few much thinner ones with insipid colours and the latimo very thin and see thru .
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: TxSilver on January 02, 2010, 01:11:22 PM
Possibly, the exceptions that other members if the forum did not have the Rosenthal-Netter label still attached?

I don't quite understand that sentence however you're aware I'm sure that Rosenthal-Netter were an American importer of Italian goods - not a manufacturer.

I originally found the Rosenthal-Netter labels confusing, too, until I learned that RN marketed a lot of Moretti satinato.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Pip on January 02, 2010, 01:33:31 PM
Thanks Anita :-) I'm aware of Rosenthal-Netter and their business activities - mainly through attempting to research Bitossi Pottery as opposed to glass - my confusion however was with the wording of Dorian's sentence.

I see that Jan from Glaskilian has handled and sold a fair bit of Moretti Satinato - I wonder if he can help clarify the coloured foot thing.  I still think the vase at the top of this thread is fine.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: TxSilver on January 02, 2010, 02:11:39 PM
The finish on flying free's vase reminds me of one that I have. GMB's Jurgen helped me identify my vase as a Moretti satinato decanter base from the late 50s. The thread for this decanter is at http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,23054.0.html. Somehow I later tracked down that the decanter was made in 1956-7. The finish on the decanter does not seem as smooth to me as some of the later pieces.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on January 02, 2010, 05:43:35 PM
I'm not sure this helps but after the recent discussion I went and had a compare to a few of my other satin glass pieces.  This piece is  different in finish.  It is satin glass but has a very slight iridescence to it.  I have taken a couple of photos to try and show this.  All my other pieces are very matt and flat really compared to this which really 'lives'.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: dorian_graye on January 02, 2010, 05:47:06 PM
giggles @ "lives" 
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: TxSilver on January 02, 2010, 07:54:36 PM
My decanter also appears to have a slight iridescence to it. I think it is why it is sometimes attributed to Loetz on eBay. The iridescence is so slight that I couldn't figure out if it was my imagination or if it was real. I don't know if the iridescence was intended or if there might be some impurities that create the effect.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: langhaugh on January 02, 2010, 10:45:31 PM
Checking on dates first. I thought Carlo Moretti opened in 1958 and Munich was 1966, which at least sets some parameters for labels and dates.  Anyone know what pieces were entered in Munich? I seem to remember it was the satinato with lattimo interior but I can't find any pictures. All the lattimo ones I've seen have coloured bases (when they have bases).

Is the base on flying free's piece domed or fairly flat?  I'm attaching a photo of the base of mine. Is it the angle of the photographs or are the bases different? I asked if anyone seen a Moretti label on a pure coloured piece, but perhaps I should also ask if anyone has seen a Moretti label on the vases (and only the vases)  with the clear frosted bases?

David
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on January 02, 2010, 11:24:33 PM
Hi David
It is my photos which make it look wonky ::).  The foot is domed, not a HUGE dome but slightly domed nevertheless.  It is 3" wide and is a bit wider than the bulbous bit of the vase (in your photos your's looks as though the foot is very slightly narrower than the widest bulbous bit of the vase??).
Oh, and it has a ground rim, the rim at the top of the neck, not the edge of the base as it were.(at least I think that's what you would call it, I am useless with terminology :spls: very flat rim)
It is not coated lattimo.  
I have been searching other pictures and found one where there is a close- up and the slight iridescent finish look the same as mine.
many thanks to all for taking the time to discuss this, it is really appreciated and I am learning a lot.
m
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: TxSilver on January 03, 2010, 12:21:14 AM
Checking on dates first. I thought Carlo Moretti opened in 1958 and Munich was 1966...
David

This probably means that Jerry's 1959 date was the correct one for the decanter. Thanks for finding this info, David.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: carolglass on January 03, 2010, 01:44:31 AM
Just to add to this tread-not satinato but here is a pair of powder blue opaque vases with the Moretti label ,26cm (10 1/2 ins) high, base of 7 cm (2 3/4 ins) slightly domed. So flying free compare all the pics and make a jugement call. regards Carol
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: post modern nut on January 03, 2010, 01:46:28 AM
I just checked, we have 7 of them, all have a clear foot, though 2 of them do not have a acid finish.  They probably made them is an assortment of combinations.  Of the 7 - 4 are blue, 2 yellow and 1 red.
Jack
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: keith on January 03, 2010, 03:47:30 PM
The more I look at all these pic's the more I think mine is not Moretti,any opinions,please,Keith,
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Cathy B on January 03, 2010, 10:20:47 PM
Keith,
With regards to your piece, I'm just wondering, is there any point contacting the company to clear it up for once and for all? Are they approachable?
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on February 12, 2010, 12:18:05 PM
Just adding more thoughts and pictures.  Carol I took on board your challenge of making a judgement call :)
and thank you so much for the pictures of the glossy vases example.  I think the shape of my green one is very similar to yours although a different size.

Today I bought another of these vases sold as Carlo Moretti unlabelled though.
It is 10" high and has the uncoloured frosted foot.  The green is 12" high and has a same coloured foot.
In my humble and inexperienced opinion, looking at them both together, and having now looked at around twenty or so examples in different  colours labelled and unlabelled on the net, they are the same maker.

I have however, not managed to find a single example that is 12" tall as my green one is.
Most are 10", 14" and 17/18" on all those I have found.

There is something very different about this satin effect on both these pieces, to all my other pieces including the orange jug which I believe is  very good quality.  
I bought three vases (different shapes)two of which clearly labelled 'Made in India' so I could compare the satin effect and finish and it is vastly different.  
There are some differences between the two 'Moretti' vases but the differences, I think, are minimal.  I have seen a number of variations on the shape of the 'bulbous' bit of the vases and these two are slightly different from each other, the green being more onion shaped the blue more round. But then I have seen both represented on labelled pieces on the net.
 In DK Judith Miller's 20th Century Glass book, there is a yellow one that may or may not have a same coloured foot (on the website I seem to remember there was also a yellow one but with an uncoloured frosted foot so I'm not sure if the book one is this one or another).
So my judgement call is that they are the same maker and I believe they are Carlo Moretti.  But I could be wrong :)
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on February 12, 2010, 12:21:32 PM
more pics
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Andy on May 15, 2010, 01:28:35 PM
Just found an Orange one  ;D 14inches.
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on May 15, 2010, 02:22:47 PM
gorgeous aren't they?  I have a few now - my orange one is 18 inches ;D  ;D  ;D
not that I'm competing or anything :angel:
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on October 11, 2010, 09:42:46 PM
In the interests of closing this topic with a definite id (and at the risk of flogging it to death  ;D)  I have completed what is probably my one and only piece of research on glass, given the expense involved in showing this.  I now have a number of these vases.

Recently I found the vase in pic number one.  It has the label shown in pic number two.  I have compared it and my very first vase with the same colour foot (pic number 3)  and there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the vase with the same colour foot is Carlo Moretti.
My other vases are different colours and varying heights and all have clear feet.  There is one difference between them and the green ones, they all have slimmer necks proportionate to the bodies.  But I am certain they are all Moretti.
m
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Andy on January 15, 2012, 01:44:13 PM
Does the panel think this lovely jug is a Moretti piece??
Cheers
Andy
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on January 15, 2012, 02:50:59 PM
Hi Andy, lovely ewer but I'm not sure  :-\ is it possible to take a pic without it being backlit?  that way the surface finish and depth of colour may be more apparent.

Just in the interests of detail, I've now had/got quite a few of the pencil neck vases and there is definitely variation in the pencil neck width, some are narrow some are wider, it's just a function of them being handblown I guess.

m
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Andy on January 16, 2012, 09:19:18 AM
I think the finish is similar to the other ones ive seen, try these.
 :sun:
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on January 16, 2012, 11:26:42 AM
Andy, it looks remarkably similar, however I just remember when researching mine, I came across another maker who also did Satinato pieces.  I'm sure it was on the Fossilfly forum and it was a labelled piece - I'm just trying to find the thread at the moment.
m,
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on January 16, 2012, 11:31:16 AM
found it - Aureliano Toso was the other maker, so that may be a possible to explore as that was a decanter.  But did not have the clear as well as the colour - although it was missing it's stopper so may well have had a clear stopper.
m
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: Andy on January 17, 2012, 10:24:32 AM
Thanks m, another good maker! havent decided whether to keep it or not yet, looks amazing in the morning sun, but may
try it out on fleabay!

Cheers
Andy
Title: Re: carlo moretti satinato or repro?
Post by: flying free on January 19, 2012, 05:02:59 PM
Andy, here's another I'd been trying to find with a stopper.  The stopper is different to yours but it would be because of the shape.  I think the finish on yours looks good for Moretti, but to be honest, I don't
know for sure. The way your foot is applied to the vase is different to the pencil necks but then that may be the design  :-\

If you scroll down this link Jurgen has put a pic of a decanter and stopper
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,23054.msg141983.html#msg141983
m