Glass Message Board

Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: david31162 on May 18, 2010, 12:54:04 AM

Title: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: david31162 on May 18, 2010, 12:54:04 AM
Am I even close in guessing murrine...possily Fratelli Toso.? Searched all online label guides but I could find no sign of this one. I thought due to the price I paid, the bright colours and slighly uneven rim(circular in he middle but pulled at intervals)that this would be a very modern tourist piece. But after looking online i'm now less certain of anything!
Fairly new to Venetian glass so  forgive me if I'm way off.
The piece is 12cm high and has a matt/satin finish and raspberry prunts.
Any information about date or origin most welcome. Thank you
David


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/DSC05239.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/DSC05241.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/DSC05242.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/DSC05245-1.jpg
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: carolglass on May 18, 2010, 02:50:07 AM
hi David- I would love to say-- heap of modern tat and I will give it a loving home here in New Zealand  BUT it is what you suspect it is- Fratelli Toso. A marker or two- is it light in weight/ is it shiny inside/snapped off pontil/ the matte finish-is it all over the outside?? If yes to all the previous I think you have an old 1910-1930 vase- for confirmation look at "Fratelli Toso-Italian Glass 1854-1980" Leslie Pina Schiffer publications, starting with the introduction page pages 32-45,53-57 have a good drool!!! The modern versions I have noticed are shiny all over and not as fine a glass and the murrines tend to sink into the glass-the older ones you can feel the murrines as that is all they are made out of -I am always on the look out for these beauties. Lucky you, regards Carol
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: david31162 on May 18, 2010, 07:45:05 AM
Thanks Carol!  I had hoped this was good. I was really excited when I found it but the bright modern colours, even compared to  the ones i saw on line made me doubt it. Thanks David
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: carolglass on May 18, 2010, 07:58:27 AM
I have attached one of my beauties- hopefully this helps- knowing my luck someone will come around and shoot me in the A****- them's the breaks. Again I can give your item a loving home in New Zealand!!! regards Carol
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: david31162 on May 18, 2010, 08:02:25 PM
Thanks for the picture,a lovely piece! Don't think I'll  pack mine off to you just yet though.
I checked my vase out for the signs you mentioned as soon as i got home. It is light,not shiny on the outside but a little more so on the inside.Oh and it has aneatly snapped off pontil.I can also feel the murrines, particularly those at the shoulder and top it is flatter near the bottom.
Does the label help? It looks similar to those on oher pieces but no exactly he same as any.
David
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: carolglass on May 19, 2010, 12:19:08 AM
David- having another look at the part label -it does look similar to a stock label that might have been used by Fratelli Toso at that time-being cautious here as I do have a stock label but all my stuff is packed away and I did not take a photo. Someone else might come along and identify it. regards Carol
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: david31162 on May 21, 2010, 04:13:39 PM
Thanks Carol,
I've searched for hours now for both labels and similar patterns . I found similar labels but nothing like the bright colours and no murrine pieces with prunts at all. Have you seen any with prunts? I hoped that they might help to confirm the attribution /date, the combination seems quite unusual  in online examples at least . I've searched under, murrine, millffiori and mosaic (is mosaic another name for this parttern ?) but no luck at all so far. Is there another name (italian name for raspberry prunts) that i could use in my search.
Thanks David
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: TxSilver on May 21, 2010, 05:24:40 PM
I understand your confusion. I've looked at your piece several times. The murrine arrangement is one that was used in 1910. The murrines look flatter, however, and the rim looks thinner than what I'm used to seeing. I've also never seen the prunts. From what I can see of the label, it looks like the thinner strip one that was used in the early 1950s. But it is probably not the same label. The only thing that I could figure for the vase is it is FT or was made in the spirit of FT. That doesn't help much, I know.

FT did do some colorful murrine pieces fairly early. There was no reason they couldn't have done orange if they wanted to. The color does make me favor a later date. I wonder if it may be a mid-century piece made in the old FT spirit. (Or maybe an older piece with a future outlook on color.) Hard to pin this one down.
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: carolglass on May 21, 2010, 07:46:53 PM
I have not seen one with prunts either but the colours on my two vases are bright- the one pictured has a deep aubergine/ bright yellow and ruby colours in the murrines. My other one has bright orange in the murrines-bad lighting and a flash contributed to the washed out colour. The glass in both of mine is thin and both are very light-  I bet there is one out there with prunts waiting to show its self, one could suppose that if they were stretching out the murrines to make the handles- prunts might have been an alternative form of decoration. regards Carol
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: david31162 on May 21, 2010, 08:04:10 PM
Thanks Anita and Carol,
I certainly hope its a Toso piece! I'll be looking out for those prunts from now on. I always think of prunts of that type having a mini revival in the late C19th and early C20th. What do you think?
Is there any way I could contnue my search? Any museums/factory archives...? Or do you think I'll just have to leave this as a possible FT?
David
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: TxSilver on May 21, 2010, 08:42:23 PM
David, I looked through pictures of some of my vases and really feel your vase is FT c. 1910. Prunts were popular at this time, so you probably just have a good example of a vase outside the normal range. Many of my pieces have also had thin rims.

It is difficult to research FT. Even the company doesn't know if they made certain pieces. Sometimes they are helpful, but usually not, in answering questions. Leslie Pina's book is good but limited to a small range of the pieces produced by FT. (It also has a couple of AVeM millefiori pieces thrown in.) I stumble across most of the information I get on FT when I'm looking at auction catalogs or similar things. If you find a good source of information, please let me know. I wish there were catalogs.
Title: Re: Murrine ?? vase with raspberry prunts and remains of a label.
Post by: david31162 on May 21, 2010, 09:09:43 PM
Thank you for looking through your collection. I'm beginning to convince myself too...I've found a FT piece with prunts, a different colour but close. http://www.great-glass.co.uk/library/lib4aa.htm           (example  6559)
Mine has a different shoulder/rim but at least they produced these at this date...Look at the lovely lampshade next to it too even more vivid colours.

Thanks again   David