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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 01:07:58 PM

Title: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 01:07:58 PM
Length 18cm height 11 cm , amber. Totally supurb. I'm hoping it might be a Boffo....what do you think ? :-\ Cheers Mike. P.S.  Last photo taken with flash , first 3 natural light.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: chriscooper on June 11, 2010, 01:37:36 PM
Hi Mike, are you thinking from his time at Whitefriars?
Chris
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 01:41:02 PM
Yes I am ! If the colour looks right ! But at any time would be fine  :thup: Here's hoping !
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: chriscooper on June 11, 2010, 01:53:39 PM
Hi Mike, just been looking on W/f.com a lot of his animals have been discussed on there birds, fish etc remember Patrick Hogan having pictures of something that looked similar,bull, horse,?but cannot find them, sure he will be along soon, could ask the question on there maybe?
Chris
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 02:03:25 PM
Hi Chris,
I have put it on ' Is it Whitefriars' and tried to link in with this thread (but it didn't work). Patrick has a Boffo mouse on his link at WF.com  which is a very similar colour.  Cheers Mike.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 11, 2010, 02:09:19 PM
 >:D

And to which Boffo are you referring? Vicente or Ettore?
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 02:16:16 PM
Good question ! Father or son , which....? Or neither  ;)
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: chriscooper on June 11, 2010, 02:28:11 PM
Father Vincente, Put a link to to the thread on the forum for you Mike
Chris
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 02:43:45 PM
Thanks Chris for starting a thread on WF.com ...I have a real gut-feeling on this one and am willing to put a bet on it !  :o

http://www.whitefriars.com/bb_orig/viewtopic.php?t=3806

cheers Mike.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 05:25:45 PM
There are X2, 100% 'NO' votes on WF.com.....I think I might have lost my bet (no remarks/no explination!) !  :cry: Sob , Mike.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: vidrioguapo on June 11, 2010, 06:06:43 PM
It just irritates the hell out of me when people vote"NO" without a hint of what it could be or a comment of any kind, but we do seem on W/F.com to have a phantom "NO" voter at the moment who votes not even when clearly it IS!!!!!!!

 :spls: :spls:

I don't know if it is or it isn't but it is a substantial and nice piece.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Patrick on June 11, 2010, 06:13:41 PM
Hi Mike,
 Not sure about the amber being right but as always very difficult from an image.
 All animal friggers are very difficult unless known examples have provenance. I am not aware of Boffo making this style of bull but Harrow Museum have one but that is nothing like yours. I am visiting someone who knew and worked with Boffo in a weeks time and will show him your pic. Will report back then.
 Your bull is certainly a fine example and I can understand why you are pleased with it.  How has it been finnished where it has come off the iron????  Is it ground and polished ?
 Regards, Patrick.

Ps, I voted 'Don't know '
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 06:20:58 PM
I totally agree with you ! I have now asked for a reason for the 'no' votes ! ...I have had great help in the past from WF.com on items I have posted there ....as you say it really is a lovely piece and could possibly be a Boffo (father or son ) . If it is or isn't it certainly is on par and I hope it's possible to get close to an attribution by some way or another !
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 06:35:31 PM
Sorry Patrick , My reply was for Emmi , we must have crossed in the post. Everything seems to be heat polished , even down to the bull's bits 'n' bobs  ;) . There is crimping to the end of the tail (the other one !). How do you think the colour compares to your Boffo mouse ? I know it is difficult via the computer . I would so much like to see the one in the Harrow Museum or a photo of it ! I didn't know Boffo even made bulls !!
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 11, 2010, 06:47:59 PM
Neither WF or Murano are my areas, but I did sort of think "Murano" when I saw it, something even sort of quietly whispered "perhaps Cenedese?" at me. It certainly has a similar quality to Cenedese work.

The Boffos were Italian, but I have no idea how long, (or even if) they worked there before moving to WF.

I wouldn't go crying into your coffee yet. (apart from loosing anything in your bet, but that'll teach you to gamble  :P )
I reckon whatever it is, it's good.  :thup:
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 07:08:29 PM
Thanks very much Sue ! ...It was only a tiny bet ! (still a tiny hope I might get my money back !). I will have to research Cenedese ! I'm really in the dark there  :pb: Ta, Mike.P.S.  Do you have any examples ?
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 11, 2010, 07:36:21 PM
You might be better off asking on the Murano forum - loads of expertise there.
All I know about Cenedese is that it whispers sweetly to me; "I am something very special."
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 07:52:14 PM
I might start a thread there and link it with this one (not sure if that will work) :ac1: It's worth a shot  :thup: Ta Mike.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: nigel benson on June 11, 2010, 08:17:45 PM
Hello,

I'm afraid I have to ask......what makes anyone think this is W/F's and by Boffo? If it's based on the colour, then why not pick anyone of ten other companies?

Bull's were made by an infinate number of companies, probably in every country in the world.

Sorry, but I'm sitting here reading the thread and wondering "Is it me?" One tenuous link with a company and we have a possible attribution. Why???

Nigel

PS. Perhaps because I've been voting on W/F's dot com lately without making comment (as I do periodically) I am the current phantom on there? If comment was always required on the vote, personally I wouldn't vote!  :o :huh:
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: vidrioguapo on June 11, 2010, 08:26:16 PM
Quote
I am the current phantom on there? If comment was always required on the vote, personally I wouldn't vote!  Shocked Huh?

No it is not a requirement that a comment is made, I was actually referring to some "NO" votes put on, when the item has been identified as Whitefriars, yet someone is adding a "NO" vote????? Mischievous? just plain stupid? or what?

Anyway, let's not digress from "the bull"!

Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Anne on June 11, 2010, 08:52:20 PM
Mike, please don't ask duplicate questions here and in Murano, just ask a Mod to move your topic to whichever form is needed. If we think it's the right thing to do, it'll be done for you.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: antiquerose123 on June 11, 2010, 08:54:02 PM
Beautiful -- I LOVE IT!!  :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Just rooting around here...
Flavio Poli (Lion) ?????????  http://www.antiquehelper.com/auctionimages/36052t.jpg

http://antiquehelper.rfcsystems.com/Full/836/51836.jpg

Maybe a (possible) BINGO here as to a maker ???: 
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/murano-glass-bull-v-nason-co-murano-italy

Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 09:18:25 PM
Thanks Nigel & Emmi ,
 
This piece just oozes qualitiy and in my humble opinion is a sculpture in glass...a real work of art . The colour is very similar to Patrick's Boffo mouse. I havn't seen the example at the Harrow Museum , which I'm sure would shed some very bright light on this bull. It is possible to make an attribution through colour and form plus technical style even through photos via the internet..... which is what this site and WF.com is all about.
What better starting point than colour and style ? The reason I mentioned Boffo was his prowess in aniamal sculpture in glass (along with the colour ). There has been no mention of an attribution here only a 'could this be ?'.  
A photo of the Harrow Museum bull would be of great advantage here for those of us who havn't seen an example of a Boffo bull ! ......Why not mention this  on WF.com when posting a 'NO' vote ?? Cheers Mike  :ac1:  

 
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 09:38:18 PM
Really sorry Anne ; could you possibly delete the Murano thread and keep it going here ? Ta !  :-[ Mike.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: johnphilip on June 11, 2010, 09:51:44 PM
Hi Emmi  ,it could be that guy that votes no and then buys the item , as has happened before . thats one of the reasons i left the forum .I vote Murano . jp
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 11:09:04 PM
Hi Antiquerose123 !

The mane looks different on the last bull , it looks pulled rather than attached. Both tail and mane  are added to this bull . There may be a small amount for clear casing on my bull ....legs and horns look quite clear. Very interesting.... the Lion and cow look very close to me !! I'm still a bit unsure though  ...  :-\
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Max on June 11, 2010, 11:11:02 PM
It would be nice if this bull was by Boffo, but if I had bought it, I wouldn't be thinking that myself.   :-\  I'd have to agree with Nigel and say it could have been made just about anywhere, but for me, Italy would be my first choice.   :)


Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 11, 2010, 11:31:06 PM
Yes , I do agree , I think I  shoudn't have mentioned Boffo and should have just left an open-ended question...no names !!   Next time I will just post photos and dimentions !!  :-X ! Sorry all & Nigel ! Thanks ! Mike . P.S. It's still a great piece.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: TxSilver on June 12, 2010, 01:31:16 AM
I have the feeling this is an Italian bull. Mainly it is because so many Murano companies made bulls similar to this one. This one has the distinctive applied glass hump which makes it stand out. I also like the way the face is tucked into the chest. My inclination is to think it is Seguso VdA. Seguso workers often went the extra mile with applied glass details, and the color is one of their favorites for animals. This is just a possibility. I agree with the others that there are several companies that could have made it.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Patrick on June 12, 2010, 06:22:10 AM
Hi Mike,
  I am not aware of Boffo making this style of bull but Harrow Museum have one but that is nothing like yours.

Hi Mike,
 Problems with copyright on this image, but as I said it is nothing vaguely resembling your bull. I will phone Harrow on Monday and ask about putting the pic on here.
 All best wishes,
                        Patrick. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 12, 2010, 09:11:33 AM
Hi Patrick,
 
Thanks very much for that it would be really good to see it ! :thup:
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: WhatHo! on June 12, 2010, 10:27:08 AM
What Ho! I don't see anything here to make me think this is Boffo. The colour is not golden amber or lighting amber and it does not look in the style of Boffo friggers. Boffos friggers were generally more 'cartoony' and do not try to be anatomically accurate. Also the crimping on the tail is not Boffo-ish.
It is a very nice piece but in my opinion very unlikely to be Boffo, mostly likely Murano. Wolfie
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 12, 2010, 11:40:16 AM
Cheers Wolfie,

I'm on a quest to try and find a Boffo animal figure and this thread is really helping...it's an interesting observation that his style was 'cartoony'. This bull, as you say, is more anatomically accurate. Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 16, 2010, 02:18:13 PM
Ooops ! Sorry, correction on the colour description ...I typed amber and meant to say Cinnamon/Brown  :-[ ! Errr I'm not that colour blind.... :-* I will make a trip to the Harrow Museum to see the Boffo bull ! Ta Mike.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Patrick on June 17, 2010, 08:51:31 PM
Hi Mike,
  I am not aware of Boffo making this style of bull but Harrow Museum have one but that is nothing like yours.

Hi , Well I was right about it not being anything like yours................. It turned out to be a HORSE !!!!!!!!

Here is pic. courtesy of Mike Beech.

(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/bargiepat/Boffohorse.jpg)
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: TxSilver on June 18, 2010, 01:11:11 AM
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That's dreadful in my eye. It looks like something I would expect from West Virginia.  :nogos:

Sorry wf fans.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: johnphilip on June 18, 2010, 09:07:00 AM
I couldnt agree more Anita i have difficulty believing Boffo made it when you see his other great works -ie Penguins Fish- Rats - et al . JP :cry: :spls: Maybe a bad day .
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Patrick on June 18, 2010, 04:15:45 PM
Hi,
 I agree also that it is VERY different from any other known piece by Boffo. I would like to know it's provenance and will make inquiries. The colour seems to be Arctic Blue or maybe Ocean Green.
 Regards,
            Patrick :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 18, 2010, 04:29:32 PM
Good grief !  :o No wonder it's not on display ! Speechless  :-X . Thanks Mike and Patrick ! It is a cartoon though !
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Leni on June 18, 2010, 05:22:30 PM
In Murano lots of the glasshouses make horses like this for the tourists (because Venice is famous for the four horses in the Doge's Palace).  I've seen young lads make a better horse than this in a matter of minutes!  (At least, they used to.  I think they may import them from China now.  IMHO the Chinese would probably make a better job of a horse than this!)  Well, we can't all be good at everything!  ;)   :24:

Looks like Arctic Blue to me, Patrick. 
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 18, 2010, 06:04:40 PM
Sorry , I think it might be on display ! Thanks for pointing it out Andrew.(on Whitefriars.com)

http://www.whitefriarsorg.org/a1-exhibitions/harrow_museum.htm  , scroll down to see !

Cheers, Mike.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Leni on June 19, 2010, 04:35:58 PM
No, it was only on display at the last Whitefriars Exhibition at the museum, which was a few years ago now.  It's not generally on display, nor is most of the WF stuff.  This is a link to my album which shows all the WF stuff which is on display at the moment: http://picasaweb.google.com/elaine.simons/HarrowHeritageMuseumWhitefirarsDisplays?feat=directlink
Not a lot, I'm afraid!   ::)
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: antiquerose123 on June 20, 2010, 08:33:21 PM
Found this -- thought I would just add this link -  here.....in case (??)

http://www.ioffer.com/i/murano-glass-bull-statue-141584091

 :huh:
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 20, 2010, 10:05:13 PM
 :huh: Can't see it winning a bull fight (which are abhorrent having seen one) . It just doesn't cut it with me ! Thanks very much  :thup:
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: johnphilip on June 21, 2010, 06:19:40 AM
Certainly NOT a Boffolo . ;D :chky:
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 21, 2010, 05:58:54 PM
 :24: I think you have a point there ! It looks like one (mine!) rather than a bull  :thup:
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: antiquerose123 on June 21, 2010, 11:35:26 PM
Certainly NOT a Boffolo . ;D :chky:

Boffolo or Buffalo ??  http://www.swaziglass.co.uk/ngwenyaglass/images/ng/ganimals/ngo4.jpg  :24:

J/K of course...


 :24: Maybe a *Steer* -- and that is why HE looks so Mad   
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 22, 2010, 04:18:07 PM
LOL ! What a cute herd !  I was thinking an American Bison (which I think might not strictly speaking be a  Buffalo !) . Besides, a male Bison is a bull anyway !  But they are too hairy around the face ...so I guess it is a normal bull or mad steer with  big hair  ;).

The colour of the glass has a slight pinkish hue in normal light if that is a clue .

I've been trawling though the internet to try to find another example but to no avail :)
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: TxSilver on June 23, 2010, 01:11:47 AM
I was thinking Brahma bull.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 23, 2010, 05:40:21 PM
Thanks Anita,

They definately have a pronounced hump but not much hair on it ! I'm thinking possibly Romagnola , derived/bread from an ox native to north eastern Italy....which would tie in.  Here's a link ...a hump with hair  :-\.

http://www.embryoplus.com/cattle_romagnola.html

Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Carolyn Preston on June 24, 2010, 12:45:15 AM
LOL ! What a cute herd !  I was thinking an American Bison (which I think might not strictly speaking be a  Buffalo !) . Besides, a male Bison is a bull anyway !  But they are too hairy around the face ...so I guess it is a normal bull or mad steer with  big hair  ;).

Actually I think you mean an American Buffalo which is really a Bison.

Hmmm, according to our friends at Wikipedia, it can be both: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bison

Carolyn
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 24, 2010, 04:10:01 AM
Thanks Carolyn,

Certainly looks like an American Buffalo ....its the matted hair and general shape !

It might be a 'Boffolo' !.... but proof  is going to be impossible I think ! cheers Mike.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 24, 2010, 05:04:51 PM
Here is a link to Whitefriars.com for a newly discovered pair of Boffo mice !

http://www.whitefriars.com/isit_contents.php?ID=8787

Cheers, Mike.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: antiquerose123 on June 26, 2010, 04:03:37 AM
Here is a UV - Murano Blue.....Scroll down to the 11th row.

http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/glass_encyclopedia/vaseline_glass/vaselineglass_home.htm

 :D

Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: antiquerose123 on June 26, 2010, 09:52:52 PM
Here is a UV - Murano Blue.....Scroll down to the 11th row.

http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/glass_encyclopedia/vaseline_glass/vaselineglass_home.htm :D

The above Bull is a UV Murano Bull....

~ ~ ~

Plus I found this Bull on this Site:  http://www.danripley.com/catalogs/modernauctioncatalog/InvCat_0008.htm
To See Image from Link):  http://www.danripley.com/catalogs/modernauctioncatalog/Image_0011_0273_0001_Med.htm
(Quoted from that Link)
"Lot #: 273 - Flavio Poli Murano glass sculpture, extremely rare, bull form. Outstanding execution of a solid hot-modelled crystal clear body with corroso surface on brilliant cut base. 7 1/4" tall x 11" long. Excellent condition.

Only known example of the bull from the remarkedly modern series designed in 1938 for Seguso Vetri d'Arte and executed by the maestro Archimede Seguso, that included a fox, hippopotamus, fox and fish. Only known image of this form can be found in October 1938 issue of Gio Ponti's Domus magazine.
Estimate: 9,000.00-12,000.00 "


 :huh:

Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: kane_u_pain on June 27, 2010, 05:30:46 AM
I would agree with TX as this being a Brahma Bull due to the hump. SVdA would be the better possibility. I am going by the colour on this piece. It is consistent with a few pieces I own in this colour. Although animals are not my speciality. Definitely Murano in my opinion. The quality is excellent.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on June 27, 2010, 06:31:11 PM
Thanks AntiqueRose123 !

What a superb Archimede Seguso bull !  :chky: A true sculpture ! What a price tag !!

This has been such a great , informative discussion/debate on bulls and I have learnt so much ! Thanks for unearthing some amazing glass bovines Rose ! It's a real subject in its' own right.

I will go with a Brahma Bull most likely SVda !

I would have liked to have thought Boffo (being interested in glass animals) would have linked his name with Buffalo (as John so amusingly pointed out....I'm still chuckling!) and would have had a go at one or two !!.... ;)

Thanks all !
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: TxSilver on June 27, 2010, 10:35:16 PM
...I will go with a Brahma Bull most likely SVda !

 :no: I guess I better put on my Murano police hat. You're safer saying it's a glass bull, most likely Murano. Seguso was just a guess by a couple of people. So many people did bulls similar to this one that it could be anyone.
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: robert1960 on July 02, 2010, 12:06:02 PM
Here's a (not very clear) picture of my black glass Murano bull

It VERY heavy  3/4Kg and is about 12/13" long, it also bears a Murano label

It's not here right now so i can't be more precise..sorry
Will  do better pics etc. when I have access to it 
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Patrick on July 12, 2010, 10:43:44 AM


I would have liked to have thought Boffo (being interested in glass animals) would have linked his name with Buffalo (as John so amusingly pointed out....I'm still chuckling!) and would have had a go at one or two !!.... ;)



Hi Mike,
 Not too far off subject but seeing you like Boffo animals here are some mice by the great man. The center one is probably his first attempt but as with all animal figures they improve with time.
 Regards,
               Patrick.   
 Ps, Sadly the one on the left has only one ear
Title: Re: Could this glass sculpture be a Boffo bull ?
Post by: Baked_Beans on July 12, 2010, 07:08:21 PM
Thanks Patrick :),

The mouse with one ear looks much happier now he/she is back with his/her family !  :love: Great photo !!

 :cheers: Mike.