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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: keith on October 01, 2010, 04:01:40 PM

Title: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: keith on October 01, 2010, 04:01:40 PM
Split from:  http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,36514.msg198714.html#msg198714

Thanks Tam Bam,pic's as requested....

Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: Ivo on October 01, 2010, 05:39:04 PM
Murano for sure but no-one seems to know precisely who did ruby red with gold. Check the files for "lion prunt" - you'll find some nifty conversation.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: tam bam on October 01, 2010, 05:48:10 PM
Hi again Keith,

Just wondering if there is any gold in the leaves of the foot of the vase.  I cannot tell in the pic you posted. 

tam bam
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: keith on October 01, 2010, 05:58:48 PM
Ivo; have seen some of the previous posts,might take another look and refresh the old grey matter!
Tam Bam;yes there is gold in the foot,I have two other similar pieces,pic's inc'
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: tam bam on October 01, 2010, 06:22:56 PM
Beautiful vases!!  The red is so intense and nice details.  Hopefully someone will be able to identify them.  Thanks for sharing with us. 

tam bam
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: jinxi on October 01, 2010, 09:03:22 PM
Ivo, thank you for pointing out the previous discussions re prunts which I have read with interest. 

Rather than post comments on the old posts I thought that I would post them all here instead (not sure if that is a good move or not).  No comments on the lion's head prunts but I do on the 'cherubs'.  Definitely agree that they are not cherubs but not sure whether masks - Anita's suggestion.  The man in the three cornered hat is the symbol of the Venetian Carnivale, I think this is the man's face (possibly a mask) and the frame to the prunt represents the underside of the hat.  I have a jug which features this image and The Loschs have a Venini/Bianconi poodle on their website with this head instead of a poodle's head.  The edges of the hat are always depicted as ruffled which, I imagine, might indicate that they were, in reality, feathered.

In another of the old posts on prunts there was a discussion of heart shaped bowls and, once again, I see them as representing this tricorn hat not a heart.

Regarding the attribution of ruby coloured glass:-
From the Barovier website:-
C. 1887 The "Artisti Barovier" company awarded a "brevetto di procedimento" (the italian words for procedure patent) for the production of "ruby and cornelian without gold" (rubino e corniola senza l'uso dell'oro).
I have therefore always believed that the very intense dark ruby red glass was their work and have certainly seen examples of what are certainly some of their designs in this colour.  Hope that helps but feel free to disagree! 
Veronica

Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: jinxi on October 01, 2010, 09:09:27 PM
Sorry Keith, went a little of the main point there - but hard to tell which colour red your glass really is! Picture 6404 is closest to the ruby I am thinking is Barovier but I am not sure that all your pieces are the same colour or whether it is just the photography/lighting which is making them appear different.  Maybe you should place them next to each other and see whether you can discern any basic differences in the colour of the red.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: ardy on October 01, 2010, 09:38:14 PM
Hi Keith - I have a Archimede Seguso bowl that reminds me a bit of yours but as there were many making similar pieces you can just take this as another bit of info.

There is also an Achimede Lamp that belongs to a friend of ours not as close but attached for info.


Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: keith on October 02, 2010, 12:18:45 AM
Thanks all for the replies,in regards to colour the taller vases 2nd pic' is correct the 'open' bowl the 1st pic' and the small bowl with prunts the 2nd pic,had them for some time would like to be able to put a name to them one day,thanks again,
                                                                                                               Keith ;D







Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: antiquerose123 on October 02, 2010, 05:42:56 AM
 :hi: Keith:
He is another link with some other ones that look Ruby Red too (and a Blue one) too.  As Max said back there -- "Might as well try and group them together a bit..."     so here is some more grouping.

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,19499.0.html

Looks like a lion head to me , on your item.   :hiclp: :hiclp: Nice, just wish these could be figured out   ;)
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: jinxi on October 02, 2010, 08:18:24 AM
I have always imagined that if Barovier held the patent for a specific colour then they would not only have used it but possibly have flaunted it a little too!

I have no idea when the patent would have expired or whether they would have let other glassmakers use it or supplied it to them and collected a fee from them as a form of revenue.  There does seem to be an awful lot of the red and gold colour around but was that simply because it was very fashionable during, I think, 1930s/1940s or because it is not particularly fashionable now and people are selling?

Veronica
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: ginogrammy on October 02, 2010, 09:18:19 PM
I have almost the same deep ruby red vase with the gold included leaves on the base and the rigarre(?) along the top. It is swirl glass and it the most gorgeous deeeep ruby red and lightweight for it's size. I have been trying to find other venetian or murano glass with the leafs at the base. I am unable to post a photo, but mine is VERY  much like the vase shown here, just shaped a little different. I thought it was Salviati. I so much wish that I knew who was the correct maker. I search many websites, and cannot find another like it with the leaves on the base in this deep ruby red, or any other color & it's really frustrating me. If anyone has any more photos of venetian glass with the leaves @ base, I would LOOOOVE to see them! Hope I will be able to solve the mystery!!
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: Ivo on October 02, 2010, 09:37:47 PM
two items... the salt cellars are deep ruby, the bowl blue - both bought together.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: jinxi on October 03, 2010, 10:16:38 AM
Ivo, your salts look like the dark ruby I was thinking of but not seen nearly as much of that fabulous dark blue, I wonder why?

I have an old vase which I think is Murano and has a third type of face prunt, (not mastered photos yet)!

Was it Paolo Venini who said something like ...... I can sell any vase as long as it's blue!  Not sure the quote or the attribution is correct but I suspect the logic is. 

I also wonder whether the leaves vase Ginogrammy commented on could be Vetreria Artistici Barovier. 

Very little fact and a lot of hypothesising in my remarks which I hope are not adding to the confusion.

Veronica

Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: ginogrammy on October 12, 2010, 11:30:11 PM
What maker would be best guess for Keiths Red vase with the crimped rim and leaf feet? Salviati & Co.? or Artisti barovier? Late 1800's?
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: Lustrousstone on October 13, 2010, 09:23:11 AM
These red things with swirls and gold in the clear bits worry me. They're not desperately well made and seem to pop up everywhere in one form or another.  My guess would be that some of them are genuine older Murano and some are cheap and cheerful modern, whether Murano or elsewhere.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: jinxi on October 13, 2010, 11:14:23 AM
Think you are probably absolutely correct Christine!
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: ginogrammy on October 19, 2010, 07:43:44 AM
I know that my piece is old, and please let me know if you would where in the world they're popping up everywhere, as I cannot find any like mine anywhere and the closest that I've seen, is the vase @ the beggining of this post.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: jinxi on October 19, 2010, 08:31:14 AM
Promise to let you know the next time I spot one!
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: ginogrammy on October 21, 2010, 06:47:53 AM
Thanks SO VERY much! I cannot wait to see ANY others pop up! I've been searching for AGES it seems!
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: ginogrammy on October 24, 2010, 03:20:38 AM
Well, I was really thinking that my vase was Salviati, but I just found this bowl on oldluxe.com that REALLY looks most like my vase for $595.00 and they say Barovier & Toso studios, so either or I suppose. My vase is very deeep ruby red and quite large.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: Lustrousstone on October 24, 2010, 09:59:11 AM
If you want help with your ID Ginogrammy you really need to post a picture, preferably two or three, including the base. See the link here for help http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6522.0.html  If you can't manage, then use the email icon under my name on the left and I will post them for you.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: ginogrammy on October 27, 2010, 06:09:51 PM
I am unable to get picture to post. It has a tiny silver sticker that is not shown in the murano labels. It just says made in italy and is just about between the size of a pencil eraser and a dime, or a large pea. the words are'nt colored, the sticker is all silver and it is very deep ruby red.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: Lustrousstone on October 28, 2010, 11:40:44 AM
Quote
If you can't manage, then use the email icon under my name on the left and I will post them for you.

Just Made in Italy usually means NOT made in Murano.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: ginogrammy on October 28, 2010, 05:17:03 PM
That is not correct. I have seen a Venini carlo scarpa unsigned vase that only had a MADE IN ITALY STICKER, and a vase that was att. to Fratelli toso, also, sticker Made in italy from Uniques & Antiques Inc. and another that had 2 seperate stickers, one that was very worn-Vetri Artistica and the other sticker Made in italy. I'm pretty certain that there's a silver foil label Made in italy decribed in Leslie Pina's Italian glass, pg. 15. I would'nt want people to think that MADE IN ITALY does'nt mean murano or is'nt authentic as that's just not the case, but thanks.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: ginogrammy on October 28, 2010, 10:37:45 PM
The leaf or petal base of ebay item# 150499435020 and the shape is the same as my vase, but me vase is deep swirl ruby red. You would need to look in ebay us under completed items.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: glassobsessed on October 30, 2010, 09:59:10 PM
Another example, quite similar to one of Keith's in style by the look of it. Not the best photos, gold in the prunt, foot and rim.

John
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: Artofvenice on November 05, 2010, 10:45:50 AM
Imho,
we can't give a realistic identification of this piece. It is a so classic piece, produce with so classic and common techniques...
There so many master glassmakers producing "vintage style".
I think that it is made in Murano at 99,99% and I, if I would have one like this, I would have at least 3-4 names to give the commission to be produced now, but I have seen some pieces not identical, but with the same details also in my granfather home coming directly from the '30s.
So I think that you will never have a final answer.

Ciao

Alex
www.artofvenice.com (http://www.artofvenice.com)
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: scotchling on July 05, 2011, 05:52:56 PM
am also searching for information on a set of plain clear straight sided whisky tumblers with matching water jug - jug has bulbous round bowl and narrow straight neck in which the tumblers have 3 lion prunt feet and the jug four lion prunt feet. Were my grandmothers - she passed away in 1970 at about age of 79.
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: Pinkspoons on July 06, 2011, 04:20:17 PM
two items... the salt cellars are deep ruby, the bowl blue - both bought together.

I've a small bowl with, if memory serves, identically-moulded lion prunts in what should be Fratelli Toso's 'Nerox' glass (I'm not sure if other glassworks were producing wares with the same surface treatment?).
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: glassobsessed on July 06, 2011, 05:36:24 PM
Scotchling, you need to start a new topic in Glass (this is Murano Glass) and you will need to add photographs of your items to get help. Meanwhile, have a look at the photos in this thread on another forum: http://www.whitefriars.com/bb_orig/viewtopic.php?t=2656 - a bit of a long shot.

John
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: keith on July 20, 2011, 03:28:43 PM
Just found this with label
Title: Re: Red vase - Italian? Crimped rim and prunts
Post by: tam bam on July 20, 2011, 06:23:19 PM
Good job, Keith!

tam bam