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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: ju1i3 on January 07, 2011, 07:15:21 AM

Title: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: ju1i3 on January 07, 2011, 07:15:21 AM
I saw this on ebay, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Red-Cased-Art-Glass-Vase-/160519779768?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item255fb975b8 and obv recognize it but I don't know the exact details or the value. I do think the charity that is selling it is losing out unless they change the description. Does anyone have anything more precise than "Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase" for a description. Any idea of value?

thanks very much
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: Ivo on January 07, 2011, 07:26:30 AM
Why uranium?
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: ju1i3 on January 07, 2011, 07:40:46 AM
Isn't that greenish yellowish layer around the red uranium?
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: Lustrousstone on January 07, 2011, 07:45:20 AM
No, its amber. These things usually find their value, as everything has a gallery picture these days.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 07, 2011, 11:28:21 AM
Nice piece - shame it's got a bit of damage - but hope the hospice get a decent price.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: shugdens on January 07, 2011, 05:43:42 PM
I list them as ''Murano Sommerso Seguso Flavio Ploli Cased Facet Vase'' to be exact.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: Lustrousstone on January 07, 2011, 06:45:24 PM
Murano and sommerso are correct!!
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: TxSilver on January 08, 2011, 02:56:37 AM
I list them as ''Murano Sommerso Seguso Flavio Ploli Cased Facet Vase'' to be exact.

This vase doesn't look like Flavio Poli to me. It looks more like the recent vases made by several companies to me.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: ju1i3 on January 08, 2011, 08:47:57 AM
Thanks everyone for the info. I did contact them and they've relisted it with a better description. No opinions about value? just curious.

Anita, what about it looks different? To my untutored eye it looks like the vintage ones I've seen.

I've bought a few bargains on ebay when the seller didn't know what they had (eg a Victorian hyacinth vase for 99p) and I didn't tell them any different! but I felt as it was a charity I should speak up.

thanks, Julie
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: TxSilver on January 08, 2011, 02:09:19 PM
That is a good question, Julie. It made me really think about the vase. Sommerso is something I usually stay away from. The thing that made me favor a more recent piece is that there are so many vases that are made that look like this. Several companies make them. Red with yellow are common colors. So in the absence of anything, such as clear lines between layers, that definitely points to Poli, it is more accurate to leave the attribution at simply Murano. eBay has had a bad effect on the name Poli. Any layered sommerso object is attributed to him on eBay.

There is one thing distinctive about the vase discussed in this thread. The outer glass is blue instead of clear. I did not really note that until I checked back. I hope there is a layered sommerso person reading who has some ideas on who made these vases with blue glass.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: Lustrousstone on January 08, 2011, 03:18:26 PM
I have a triple sommerso vase with faceted sides and the outer layer is a pale pinky brown which matches the darker pinky brown inner layer. I suspect Mandruzatto for mine and probably for this one. They do a square one and it seems that they mostly change the colour schemes rather than the shapes for these sorts of things http://www.mandruzzato.ve.it/Home_Eng.asp
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: shugdens on January 08, 2011, 03:33:35 PM
That is a good question, Julie. It made me really think about the vase. Sommerso is something I usually stay away from. The thing that made me favor a more recent piece is that there are so many vases that are made that look like this. Several companies make them. Red with yellow are common colors. So in the absence of anything, such as clear lines between layers, that definitely points to Poli, it is more accurate to leave the attribution at simply Murano. eBay has had a bad effect on the name Poli. Any layered sommerso object is attributed to him on eBay.

There is one thing distinctive about the vase discussed in this thread. The outer glass is blue instead of clear. I did not really note that until I checked back. I hope there is a layered sommerso person reading who has some ideas on who made these vases with blue glass.
you wouldnt know until you had it in your hand to be honest. I've sold a couple identical to this as Poli as well as several of the more diamond shape. This is the more common one that crops up.
I think I've one of these with a chiped rim in one of my storages if memory serves me right.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: TxSilver on January 08, 2011, 05:10:46 PM
I don't think it is Alessandro Mandruzzato, because his vases have a square inner opening to the mouth. However, it might be his father Luigi Mandruzzato. The father had the circular opening in at least some of his vases. Campanella, Bucella, V Nason, and others made similar vases. I hoped someone would recognize the blue casing glass to narrow down the list of possibilities.

I am a definite show-me person. I rarely trust attributions unless someone can show me a label, a signature, or documentation --that is unless the person doing the attributing is an expert. I particularly don't trust attributions if a vessel is a common form, such as the one in this thread. Someone would have to convince me it was Poli before I would consider a Poli price.

There are certain names, e.g. Poli and Martens, that are put on eBay so much that I've learned to totally ignore them. The object is to increase the price of the piece to people who don't know any different. A merchant or seller owes it to their customers to do the research and not to attribute because something looks like it might be designed by someone. IMO, if a piece cannot be documented, then it should simply be sold as Murano glass and let the buyer use their own imagination.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: shugdens on January 08, 2011, 05:39:42 PM
There are certain names, e.g. Poli and Martens, that are put on eBay so much that I've learned to totally ignore them. The object is to increase the price of the piece to people who don't know any different. A merchant or seller owes it to their customers to do the research and not to attribute because something looks like it might be designed by someone. IMO, if a piece cannot be documented, then it should simply be sold as Murano glass and let the buyer use their own imagination.
I got to the stage with alot of glass that I'd just stick 'style' in the title then in the description list the posible atributions unless I could be 95% certain.
When your making a living on ebay you have to sell to pay your bills & sometimes your in a catch 22 situation. Fortunately I'm mainly a market trader so can have endless conversations trying to atribute a piece whilst selling it.

If a seller genuinely beleves a piece to be what they think it is they cant be falted on that but should always describe how they came to that conclusion as I always do. I think this also ads to the joy of buying & selling glass & ceramics. It can work both ways as a buyer can end up with an steal...
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: TxSilver on January 08, 2011, 07:32:27 PM
I just did a quick search for Poli under Glass in eBay. There were 53 glass listings. There were 7 of these that might be Poli. I'm not sure about many of them, but they were good enough to be Seguso VdA. Someone may want to duplicate my efforts and see what they come up with.

Keyword spamming and deliberate misleading of buyers has a couple of consequences, one direct and one indirect. The direct being the buyer is not getting what he/she is lead to believe. The indirect is that is that it lowers the value of the real stuff. People lose their faith in the attribution, and also come to think of the designer as being very common. Some companies, e.g. Tiffany, fight back at people who would smear their brand. The family of Fulvio Bianconi went after eBay for a while. Unfortunately, most companies do not invest resources in protecting their names.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: shugdens on January 08, 2011, 08:02:18 PM
I just did a quick search for Poli under Glass in eBay. There were 53 glass listings. There were 7 of these that might be Poli. I'm not sure about many of them, but they were good enough to be Seguso VdA. Someone may want to duplicate my efforts and see what they come up with.

Keyword spamming and deliberate misleading of buyers has a couple of consequences, one direct and one indirect. The direct being the buyer is not getting what he/she is lead to believe. The indirect is that is that it lowers the value of the real stuff. People lose their faith in the attribution, and also come to think of the designer as being very common. Some companies, e.g. Tiffany, fight back at people who would smear their brand. The family of Fulvio Bianconi went after eBay for a while. Unfortunately, most companies do not invest resources in protecting their names.
its not just Ebay I bought a job lot of described as '9 Italian colourded art glass vases bowls & ashtrays' as far as I can tell two were Italian one which I described as Seguso sommerso & as far as I'm conserned was Seguso & sommerso. The second I described just as Tripple cased Murano of a high quality Murano factory posibly Seguso or Tosso. This one went for quite a high price considering.
The rest were all Czech one of which I sold as Beranek and was 90% sure of that.

Auction houses seem to describe any 60s coloured glass as Italian or venitian, some oth the pieces I've seen sold as whitefriars at auction sales has been a joke as well. The WF comunity would be going mental...
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: TxSilver on January 08, 2011, 09:03:55 PM
What name do you sell under?
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: shugdens on January 08, 2011, 11:07:23 PM
What name do you sell under?
Shugden Antiques I dont just sell glass, glass is just my favrote medium & what i have most intrest in.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: kane_u_pain on January 09, 2011, 06:11:01 AM
None of these type of vases are by Poli and I will avoid these like the plague.

I agree with TX. Do a ebay hit for Poli and you will only ever get less than a handful at any one time that are by him.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: shugdens on January 09, 2011, 07:13:41 AM
None of these type of vases are by Poli and I will avoid these like the plague.

I agree with TX. Do a ebay hit for Poli and you will only ever get less than a handful at any one time that are by him.

How would you describe this one?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350422908244
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: langhaugh on January 09, 2011, 07:25:08 AM
I'd say Murano. My reluctance to label anything Poli is that I've never seen a reliable, i.e. a decent book or reputable auction house, attribute anything like these ashtrays or the original vase in this thread to Poli. 

This is the the year that the book Seguso Vetri D'Arte, "the complete catalogue since 1933" by Heiremans is supposed to appear. That should settle some of the arguments.

David
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: kane_u_pain on January 09, 2011, 08:16:54 AM
Just done a Flavio Poli hit on ebay. Serach results 95 described as Flavio Poli. In my opinion on 2-3 may have been designed by him. I didn't include the one that was by him.

I would describe that bowl as Murano. I would not add a name to it as no label is attached.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: TxSilver on January 09, 2011, 02:50:33 PM
I am more inclined toward Cenedese or G. Ferro for the bowl, though like you, Kane, I wouldn't have tried to attribute it without some documentation. It looks like uranium glass on the outside.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: shugdens on January 10, 2011, 02:38:29 AM
the other Murano from that job lot was this one, i realy thought it was seguso.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350424673600&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

.

Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: tam bam on January 10, 2011, 07:47:20 PM
Shugdens, the 2nd link you show is probably Ferro too, but I am not going to bet my money on it not unless I could examine it in my hands. 

I too am ready for the SVdA book to come out.  It will help me solve some mysteries of my own.  I have two pieces that I have questions about.
Title: Re: Murano Sommerso Uranium Vase?
Post by: shugdens on January 10, 2011, 08:42:31 PM
Shugdens, the 2nd link you show is probably Ferro too, but I am not going to bet my money on it not unless I could examine it in my hands. 

I too am ready for the SVdA book to come out.  It will help me solve some mysteries of my own.  I have two pieces that I have questions about.

I'm about to list two more but just have them as Murano or Bohemian, I think the Cerbska but going to let them find there own price & people make there own mind up today.
There from the job lot I bought as Venitian before xmas.