Glass Message Board

Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Scandinavian Glass => Topic started by: kocoma on April 29, 2011, 09:40:14 PM

Title: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: kocoma on April 29, 2011, 09:40:14 PM
Today I have picked up an Ariel vase and a Kraka vase at an auction house... so not a bargain ;)
Normally I collect venetian glass but I love this Ariel vase!!!

Can anybody give me more informations about it? Age?
Is it a rare piece?
By searching the web I only found Ariel vases with the Gondoliere, Girl with dove and others.
But find nothing with a panther.
On the other side is a butterfly and other mysterios things :)

It is signed: Orrefors, Ariel No. 135 G, Edvin Öhrström
What stands the "G" for?

I think, next month I will buy a book about scandinavian glass :)

Thank you in advance

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7980585/Orrefors/IMG_4091k.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7980585/Orrefors/IMG_4097k.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7980585/Orrefors/IMG_4099k.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7980585/Orrefors/IMG_4093k.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7980585/Orrefors/IMG_4130k.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: glassobsessed on April 29, 2011, 10:29:17 PM
Ooooooh  :mrgreen:

Very, very, very nice.

According to http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/swedish.htm#O 135 G is the date code for 1958 (for Ariel pieces), I suspect the design is earlier though.

John
Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: a40ty on April 30, 2011, 06:44:49 AM
Stunning! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: ahremck on April 30, 2011, 06:52:46 AM
"Envy is a curse" - what a cracking piece of glass/crystal.  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Wish it were mine.

Ross
Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: chopin-liszt on April 30, 2011, 09:37:29 AM
 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :thud:
Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: kocoma on April 30, 2011, 02:54:37 PM
Thank you for your answers and the link. :)
So the G stands for Simon Gate? Or is this only for the earlier numbering system?

I have found an earlier vase with a panther:
http://jacksons.se/products/ohrstrom-ariel-vase-4752

So my vase is based on this design.
But I could not find an identical piece as reference. :(

The date corresponds to the Kraka vase. But it is a small piece.
It is also signed with a date 5.9.1957
So I think it is from the same collector who has bought the pieces together.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7980585/Orrefors/IMG_4077.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7980585/Orrefors/IMG_4086.jpg)


Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: langhaugh on April 30, 2011, 07:18:52 PM
Absolutely gorgeous pieces. I was offered "Girl and the Dove" for $2000 last weekend and I said, "No." I should have risked divorce.

The Kraka pieces designed in 1957 were numbered 358-363. The number on your piece seems to be 347, from what I can  see, which was 1955.  The question on this piece is about the "PU" before the number (P=Palmqvist; U=handformed) as this code was only used after 1960 on serial production pieces. Not that it matters much, as it's a gorgeous piece.

The Ariel pieces are harder to date. According to the Orrefors book edited by Wickman, the early numbers for Ariel don't reliably give a date. I'd think the design of your piece dates to the early 1940's. It's not the same design as the the one you show in the link. It's also possible that your piece was produced in 1972 when Orrefors reintroduced some of Ohstrom's earlier designs. It's not clear to me that the Ariel items with the suffix G produced in 1958 were new designs or old designs.  

What is clear, though, is that it's a wonderful piece. If Bill Geary or Daniel S are around, either of them could clear up the production dates, I'm sure.

David



Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: Daniel S on May 02, 2011, 03:49:30 PM
Hi !

The G is the year letter for 1958. I don't think I have seen this particular design earlier and imo it's made 1958 as a more unique piece.


The Kraka we can say for sure that it's made BEFORE 5.9. 1957. Right now I can't remember if 347 was mass produced or is unique.
Either way, the date is for something else. Probably a birthday or marriage. NOT the production date, if 347 is unique, then it was produced 1955.
Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: langhaugh on May 02, 2011, 04:50:20 PM
Daniel:

Ulrika Ruding in the Orrefors book writes that 100 G - 653 G were also produced in 1972. If that's true, how does one distinguish between a piece made in 1958 and a piece in 1972?

Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with what you say, which, as usual, is really helpful. I'm just looking for more information.

Thanks.

David
Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: Daniel S on May 02, 2011, 06:16:30 PM
David that is 100% true.

And I can't say for sure which is right. With a little more time it would be possible to determine it though.
Either comparing signatures or check OF archive.
Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: kocoma on May 02, 2011, 09:52:52 PM
Thank you for all you replies. :)

Oh, I think I have to learn a lot about Scandinavian glass... it looks to me very extensive  :huh:
Italian glass is easier for me with dating.

So the design is not shown in your books?
I thought that every design was listed in the Orrefors books...because every piece got a number.
(Such as the Venini catalogues.)

Thank you!!!
Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: Bill G on May 03, 2011, 01:20:31 PM
A quick note on Ariel glass by Edvin Ohrström at Orrefors.

It will be very difficult to determine if the year was 1958 or 1972.

It seems with each change in management, the numbering system changed at Orrefors.

Since different employees signed the glass, the distinction in signatures would be difficult to pinpoint the year. Having gone through the register books for all of Ohrström's glass at Orrefors, the employee signing the work was not identified in these documents.

You have an excellent example of ariel glass created at Orrefors.

The masters used a difficult technique to capture the air in the design. A bubble of glass is added to the end of the blank and then with a special tool worked back over the blank capturing the design with air.

Bill Geary

Title: Re: Orrefors Edvin Öhrström Ariel vase with panther
Post by: kocoma on May 11, 2011, 07:28:48 PM
I found some ariel vases with signatures made by the same employee who has signed my piece.
I compare the "Ö" and the "d" of the signature.

http://vandm.com/Ariel-Glass-Bowl-by-Edvin-Ohrstrom-1906-1994-for-Orrefors/3_239_60=558_product=139551.aspx
http://antiquehelper.rfcsystems.com/Full/294/73294_view%2002_02.jpg
http://antiquehelper.rfcsystems.com/Full/184/74184_view%2002_02.jpg

All these where made in the 50s if I compare the numbers.
Could this be an indication, that my piece was also made in the 50s / 1958 ?

Best regards