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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: keith on March 07, 2012, 07:05:28 PM

Title: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: keith on March 07, 2012, 07:05:28 PM
4 inches high,large polished pontil mark and fine crackle on the rim and outer body,very chuffed ;D ;D
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 07, 2012, 07:07:09 PM
Nice one
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: flying free on March 07, 2012, 08:58:25 PM
Pretty!  they are really beautiful vases. 
 :-[ can I add mine here, so we start a thread on them?
m
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: keith on March 08, 2012, 12:36:07 AM
Good idea,'pices' I really must read my posts before posting!
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: flying free on March 17, 2012, 09:39:12 AM
Well I think these are both Walsh Walsh  :) 
One has a large polished pontil mark but it still doesn't quite take out the snapped off mark from the pontil rod as to go any deeper would have damaged the bowl.  The other has a teeny tiny, the smallest polished pontil mark I have ever seen apart from on my Clichy jug.
m
 
 
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: keith on March 17, 2012, 02:39:04 PM
Look Walsh to me,here's my others in this style plus a couple of possibles ;D ;D
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: flying free on March 18, 2012, 10:01:54 PM
Nice!  the folded three cornered bowl on your second to last shot...does that have a polished pontil mark? or is it snapped off?
m
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: keith on March 19, 2012, 04:31:31 PM
All with polished pontil marks apart from 2nd pic', centre piece that has a broken p.m'k ;D
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: flying free on March 19, 2012, 05:13:45 PM
and strangely that was one I was  wondering about...it looks Bohemian doesn't it?
mmm, interesting, still on my quest re snapped off pontil marks, but getting closer maybe  ;D
m
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: keith on March 19, 2012, 06:33:19 PM
Think it probably had a wire mesh,that was the cheapest find at less than a tenner! :o ;D ;D
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: flying free on March 20, 2012, 10:51:03 AM
 ;D nice find then, well done!
m
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: Bernard C on March 21, 2012, 07:01:07 AM
Keith et al Yes, your Bohemian looking piece is missing its metal fitting.   See Hajdamach II plate 246, row 3(ii), which shows a similarly fitted piece in Primrose (pattern A3226).

What is interesting about these two is that they must have been blown into a multipart opening final shape mould to get the accuracy necessary for the Walsh-supplied metal fittings to be a tight fit.   My example of A3226 is like yours, missing its fitting.   What is noteworthy about mine is the poor state of the mould lines, by far the worst condition multipart opening mould I've ever seen used on a Walsh piece.

I suspect that mine was made in a worn secondhand mould, probably acquired by Walsh from the Continent, but until I find a match by the earlier glassworks I can't be certain.

What mould lines, if any, are on yours, and what condition are they in?

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: keith on March 21, 2012, 02:07:26 PM
The mould lines are barely visible to the extent that I'm not sure if it is a two or four piece mould!
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 21, 2012, 03:08:14 PM
I wonder whether the "rose bowl' is actually Bohemian. It reminds me of the green ones you see. It that mould actually known to be Walsh?
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: keith on March 22, 2012, 04:23:12 PM
Don't think it's Bohemian,isn't it 'Brocade' pattern,where have I put that book?
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: Bernard C on March 27, 2012, 08:32:49 AM
Don't think it's Bohemian,isn't it 'Brocade' pattern,where have I put that book?

Keith Yes, it's Brocade, but only part of the pattern.   This causes some confusion at times.   Indeed the best example I've seen was a green vase on a leaf foot which was on Mervyn Gulliver's stand at the National some five years ago.   It was quite small, only about 6" high including the short stem and foot.   He hadn't attributed it as he hadn't recognised the pattern.   He saw it as soon as I pointed out that it was the upper part of the Brocade pattern.

I conclude that Walsh's Brocade was quite a large dip mould, impractical for small objects.   Northwood's slightly later copy of the mould was considerably smaller.   For example, see Heacock 2, revised 2nd edition, 1977, p.55 for a Northwood salt and pepper in Brocade with a fairly complete pattern that I believe would have been impossible using the Walsh mould.   You will also see small examples of Northwood's Brocade mould in Heacock & Gamble 9, 1987, and possibly in other volumes in the series.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: mrvaselineglass on March 28, 2012, 12:21:33 PM
This is in response to Bernard's comment about the BROCADE pattern being large.  Here is a group montage photo of 4 pieces I have had (I have since traded off two of the 4, but still have the BROCADE piece).  The little cross (or 'X') that is in the pattern just barely ended up on the rim of the piece (shown top right).

http://www.vaselineglass.org/jwwtwisty4.jpg (http://www.vaselineglass.org/jwwtwisty4.jpg)

From rim to center, this piece measures about 3" and the top rim diameter is just over 5". 

Dave Peterson
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: Bernard C on March 28, 2012, 02:24:33 PM
Dave grateful thanks.   That's an excellent example, the best I've seen, showing that Walsh was restricted to about one third or less of their Brocade pattern (measured vertically) for this lovely small tazza.   I think my theory is well on the way to being proven.

Do you have any photographs of small Northwood Brocade pieces for comparison?   Heacock volumes 2 and 9 are not readily accessible to the majority of GMB members!

Warmest regards,

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: mrvaselineglass on March 28, 2012, 03:19:17 PM
Bernard: I do not collect any of the Northwood pieces, (originally called Opaline Brocade, then erroneously called SPANISH LACE), due to it being manufactured in large numbers and because it was a direct rip-off of a JWW pattern!  JWW advertised the pattern a full 13 months before Northwood introduced his pattern.  JWW is also a more delicate glass than Northwood, and has a lot more variety in the pattern.  My prize piece in JWW's pattern is a oil lamp shade, something Northwood never made.  The spot pattern is really stretched, but is the real deal.  I don't have any photos of Northwood's version that I actually took and have rights to share with the group, but I can share my lampshade photos!

http://www.vaselineglass.org/jwwoblampl.jpg (http://www.vaselineglass.org/jwwoblampl.jpg)

I took this photo of a friend's piece, and have rights to use the photo of this other JWW OPALINE BROCADE piece.  It is vaseline opalescent, with cranberry on the inside (we call it RUBINA VERDE OPALESCENT in the USA):

http://vaselineglass.org/opalbrocadered.jpg (http://vaselineglass.org/opalbrocadered.jpg)

And finally, this is a piece that I used to own (and I took this picture and have rights to use it).  This piece was about 7" in diameter at the widest point.  I sold it to the owner of the piece shown immediately above (and he wants my little twisty tazza too!)

http://www.vaselineglass.org/jwwobvasel.jpg (http://www.vaselineglass.org/jwwobvasel.jpg)

Dave

Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: flying free on March 28, 2012, 05:33:01 PM
Slight attack of envy here Dave  ;D
The light is just gorgeous - well they all are.
m
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: Bernard C on April 11, 2012, 05:15:05 PM
Slight attack of envy here Dave   ...

Slight?   I'm suffering from good old-fashioned rock solid jealousy, seeing Walsh I just dream of.   ;D

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: mrvaselineglass on April 23, 2012, 04:35:56 AM
Another piece of OPALINE BROCADE was added to the collection this weekend.  This is an oil or cruet.  No evidence in the neck of it ever having a stopper. I also know of one other just like this that is in a Florida (USA) collection.

Dave Peterson

http://www.vaselineglass.org/jwwoil.jpg (http://www.vaselineglass.org/jwwoil.jpg)
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: flying free on April 23, 2012, 06:53:21 AM
What size is it please Dave?  It's incredibly pretty especially in that shape.
m
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 23, 2012, 07:38:47 AM
Where did you buy it from Dave? My suspicious little mind says that's very "organic" for Victorian table ware; it's OK for a decorative item. My thoughts were perhaps it was a Bohemian lookalike or maybe it was just for the US market.
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: mrvaselineglass on April 23, 2012, 11:42:33 AM
Christine:  I bought it at a big (2x a year) antique show and the dealers got it at an estate sale.  It is an old piece and there is no doubt in my mind that it is an original John Walsh Walsh piece of Opaline Brocade.  It most likely is a decorative piece.  A lot of the John Walsh Walsh pieces in this pattern are for decoration only.  I asked a friend about it (who collects a lot of this pattern and owns that tall vase that has the cranberry rim and metal base), and he sent back to me a picture of the one he owns.  I guess 'decorative ewer vase' is a more accurate description.  My piece shows considerable honest wear on the underside of the piece. 

Dave
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 23, 2012, 03:14:33 PM
I wasn't doubting that it was old. It was the use that threw me.
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: mrvaselineglass on April 23, 2012, 05:56:29 PM
While a lot of OPALINE BROCADE has made it's way to the USA, due to collectors like me, I have never heard of it being exported here from point of manufacture (but it could have happened).  Northwood started reproducing this pattern 14 months after JWW first announced the pattern, and Northwood would have been able to sell it cheaper in the US than JWW could have sold it with the cost of a boat ride included. Northwood's shapes are well documented with original catalog illustrations, and this is not a Northwood shape.  I also have not heard of any pieces being suspected as Bohemian in origin.  I have handled quite a bit of JWW OPALINE BROCADE, and this is consistent with other pieces I have handled.  It may have been a decorative flower arranger piece, too.

Dave
Title: Re: Another pices of Walsh I think.....
Post by: Bernard C on April 25, 2012, 06:52:35 PM
Dave Many of Eric Reynolds' finest pieces were obtained from the US, including, I understand, the huge Opaline Brocade vase on the front cover of his book.   My conclusion is that Walsh and their agents successfully brought a realistic and aggressive marketing style to their US operations, accepting occasional plagiarism as inevitable, and countering it with a stream of innovative designs and products, sometimes specifically tailored to suit the US market, like your ewer/vase.

14 months is plenty of time to establish a product range, and I'm sure Walsh's agents were ordering it from Birmingham long after the Northwood range emerged.

Bernard C.  8)