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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: flying free on July 09, 2012, 02:06:43 PM

Title: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 09, 2012, 02:06:43 PM
Not entirely sure what to call these types of weights, but does anyone know what period they date to please? 
The ones I'm referring to are those at the front of this group I've linked to that have little clay figures in them. I've read as much as I can and still can't really get a fix on dates.  Are they late Victorian? I've got that they started being made around 1830 but when did they stop being made - I presume they were made until bottle manufacturing went completely automated but when would that have been?

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/thirteen-various-green-glass-dump-late-19th20th-5025675-details.aspx?intObjectID=5025675

I saw one of these ages ago and didn't win it and I've been curious about them since.  There aren't that many around, I seem to come across the same ones over and over on searches, boy on elephant, children, cherub, thistle and leaves but not many more available in terms of images on google using my searches.  I've been using Sulphide and encrusted cameo dump etc but mostly what comes up are the flower ones.  I've just bought one with some sort  of figure of a lady carrying something in it, but it's difficult to tell from the pics(and I've no idea what condition it's going to be in).
It's similar to this one here but smaller but she looks like it's the same figure - scroll down to 12th item  http://www.collectorcity.co.uk/Glassware,Metalware,Tableware.htm

Thanks for any help  :) .
m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: keith on July 09, 2012, 03:09:53 PM
According to one book it was first attempted c. 1750 in Bohemia but was perfected by a Frenchman in the late 18th,then made all over in the early 19th,Apsley Pellatt,Baccarat and Clichy all made them ;D ;D
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 09, 2012, 03:17:42 PM
Thanks Keith  :)  that start date of early 19th links with what I've read of around 1830 if I recall. I think these green bottle glass dumps though are quite different to their 'posh' friends from Baccarat and Clichy aren't they? 
What I'm also curious about is who made the little clay figures to go in them.  Who was sitting there at the end of the day in the bottle factory and thought 'I know, I'll make one with a boy on an elephant in today'... and where did he get the clay figure from? The posh ones seem to be based on medals or I suppose cameos of some sort ( the royalty heads) but where did these more rustic ones come from.  Also are they generally British if they are green?  or were they made elsewhere on the continent?
m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: keith on July 09, 2012, 06:52:51 PM
Had a look through some more books and apart from a couple of Scotsmen in the late 18th called James and William Tassie who made wax portraits and then cast them in plaster the wax is then removed,molten glass poured in and then mounted on sheets of glass,other than these nothing ::) info' care of Sotheby's Concise Encyclopedia of Glass. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: KevinH on July 09, 2012, 07:16:05 PM
Keith's summary info on the initial "cameo incrustations" refers to early attempts at using ceramic embedded in glass (in France, and soon after patented by Pellatt in England). But at that time the inclusions were not of the type seen in the "Dump" weights and doorstops.

The reference above to the Christie's completed sale shows a dating of late 19th to early 20th century, which is about as accurate as it gets for these items, especially for the terracotta versions.

Although Dump weights are mentioend briefly in various books, I know of only three main references which deal specifically with the subject:
- A series of three articles by William Drew Gaskill in the Bulletin of the PCA (members only)
- A self-published book by Peter M Sellers (see his entry in the Book forum (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,30768.msg166863.html#msg166863))
- A book by Mary Skotnicki & Gregory Warren Wilson (still available through Amazon etc)
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 09, 2012, 07:28:15 PM
Thank you Kev  :)    I did manage to find the William Drew Gaskill papers online  :-X  Not sure if they were complete...well I found two anyway (2003 I think?).  I 'd found the self published book, which sounds to be the most appropriate, but not the other so I will investigate.  I may have to try and get the book. But I end up buying these books and discovering I might have one piece pictured out of the entire volume - I know they are very useful and also very interesting, but it makes my pieces go from being quite a cost effective buy to extortionately expensive  :-[ and in the case of paperweights, I have a handful left that are curiosities rather than a collection if you see what I mean.
It's a dilemma  :)
m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: tropdevin on July 09, 2012, 08:52:56 PM
***

If you go for a book on dumps, I recommend Mary Skotnicki's as by far the best - she has probably the best collection of dumps in the world, and the book shows some very unusual pieces, as well as the more common place (she used to fight Bill Gaskill for anything rare...).  It does not give current prices, of course - which are perhaps a third or less of what they were 10 years ago for the run of the mill designs.

Many of the sulphide dumps, foil dumps and 'bubble' dumps are mid to late Victorian, and from many glass factories in the UK. However, they were made through to the 1960s in at least one factory.  The hardest to find are signed 'Kilner' or 'Redfearn' with an impressed seal on the base.

Beware of very clean, relatively tall pieces in pale blue-green glass, with tiers of flowers and with a flat  ground base. These came in by the crate load a few years ago, all the way from China, and were offered for sale as 'Victorian dumps' at ludicrously high prices by a number of sellers on eBay and at Antiques Fairs. Quite a few people were taken in...but thankfully they seem to have all been sold now.

Alan
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 09, 2012, 08:58:15 PM
Thank you Alan.  I shall investigate the book and thanks for the extra information on the 'new'weights.  I'm not attracted to the flower pot ones, it's just the ones with figures in them really and there don't seem to be many of those around at all unless I'm not using the right search terms.
m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: tropdevin on July 09, 2012, 09:40:16 PM
***

Hi.

I think you are right that the sulphide dumps seem to be uncommon - I have not come across that many in the last 15 years. I don't think it is your search terms!

Alan
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 09, 2012, 10:01:18 PM
ok thanks  :) I've been using all sorts of key words but still all I've found is about 5. Perhaps the two authors you mention have them all.  I can't wait for this one to arrive.  I'm desperate to get some good photos and have a look at what they are really like.  I do think the image is the same one as that one I linked to curiously, it's just a smaller piece and she isn't stood on a 'pedestal' thing from what I could make out.  I wonder who she is?  She looks like she is either throwing a cape round her shoulders or carrying something with one arm above her shoulder and over her head sort of.  I'll post pics when it arrives.
m
There is a Florence Nightingale here - I'd read about her but not been able to find her (page 9 I think on the link)
http://www.dvpaperweights.org/newsletters/pdf/dvpca_march2004newsltr.pdf
m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 09, 2012, 11:12:26 PM
ah using 'dumpy' in my key words  I've found one more with some possible date information -
Apparently this is a 'Fred Archer' dump weight, green dump with a jockey on horse clay figure enclosed.  I've no idea if it really is supposed to represent Fred Archer as there is no supporting evidence,  but he dates to 1857-1886 and was champion jockey for 13 years.  Of course that doesn't mean it was made during that time, but I suppose it's likely it may have been.   I've just put it here for future reference on dates.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2752409
m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 10, 2012, 08:19:09 PM
Keith thank you for looking through more books for me  :) I thought I'd said that in a previous post.  I appreciate it.  I do have quite a large library of books now but they just rarely seem to have the piece in that is mine  :-X
m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: keith on July 11, 2012, 12:08:12 AM
You are welcome,I've 29 books on glass and a number of general 'antique' books,it wasn't until I got 20th British Glass  ' that I saw any of our pieces so you're not alone in that ;D ;D
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: tropdevin on July 11, 2012, 09:12:41 AM
***

Skotnicki's book has a complete chapter on dumps with sulphide inclusions, with 49 illustrations (some of them the same piece from different angles). It mentions others that are not illustrated, too.

Alan
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 11, 2012, 03:11:59 PM
Thanks Alan - so not that many in total then.  It is on my book hit list, but having bought two expensive ones this month I have to save for it  :)
m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 12, 2012, 12:37:47 PM
aah she has arrived and she's delightful! YOu might need to right click on images and open in a new tab to see them larger sized.  If you press control and the + button at the same time you should get clearer detail once enlarged hopefully.
Sjhe's 3 1/4" tall by 2 1/4" wide.
I've put some close up picture on, but unfortunately because of some pitting in the glass, the photos distort her face slightly (which is very pretty)and dont represent how beautiful it is when just looking at it lit up. 
Really pleased  :)
She might be Demeter Goddess of Agriculture is all I can think of, as she looks to be surrounded possibly by sheafs of wheat ...but maybe a long shot difficult to tell.  Her left arm is missing.  Any thoughts on who she might be welcomed.
m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 12, 2012, 12:41:43 PM
more pics
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 12, 2012, 02:28:50 PM
Actually the other side of her is broken off as it were, and I wonder if what is behind her right arm is a wing.  Perhaps she is an angel?
m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: flying free on July 28, 2012, 05:25:37 PM
similar to the horse one I linked to, but not the same and much bigger at 5" tall by 4 1/2" diameter - he 'raced away'  ;D at over 200.00

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230827214112?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

m
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: NZ Glassmaker on May 03, 2018, 12:38:18 AM
An old thread but just got this piece. Base broken and fracture up through the dump but believe it may be a one off. The pottery mug has a large air bubble inside and the side of the mug has a small split from the pressure. Size is 110mm high x 60mm diam.
Title: Re: Green glass dump paperweights with clay figures in them encrusted cameo sulphide
Post by: keith on May 03, 2018, 12:42:37 PM
Never seen one of those before  :o ;D ;D